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  #31  
Old 06-13-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x54.4blue
It is my understanding that claying strips the clear coat, is that true?
Not true at all.

Clay is like an exfoliant (ask any hot chick about it if you don't know), it just grabs the crap on top of the paint (bird dooky, bug guts, road tar, buffalo chips) and pulls it off.



Turtle Wax was great and still is for older paint finishes. Other companies have stepped up to the newer paint finishes and just outclass the Turtle, IMHO.

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  #32  
Old 06-13-2006, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x54.4blue
My X5 is about a year old don't think I need a two step product except for maybe the hood. The rest of the truck just needs a light wax without any cleaningwax. It is my understanding that claying strips the clear coat, is that true?

Still don't think a mass market product ilke the turttle is bad. I think CR tests do miss a lot but for something like wax thier methods should work.

I was hoping for other members to respond as well.
You are putting way to much credence into the Consumer Report tests. I see that you're hanging your hat on the opening paragraph of their Cax Wax article which reads: "In our test of car waxes, we found that pricier ones favored by enthusiasts do not necessarily work better than some less-expensive brands. The two top performers cost $7 while a product selling for $22 ranked no better than the middle of the pack."

I believe this has been the basis for all of your posts thus far.

Consumer Report provides good general information to consumers who have no prior knowledge about specific purpose products. I would trust it implicitly for consumer information regarding lawn tractors, barbeques grills, and whole house fans, but their car wax test is definitely not geared to car enthusiasts, it is geared to the average consumer who is not very literate about car care products.

The average car consumer will wash and wax his/her vehicle on 1-2 times a year. They are looking for long lasting gloss and durability, nothing more nothing less. They are also looking for total convenience - hence the products that are labeled as cleaner/waxes.

The car enthusiast is looking for a show car quality shine where the reflection is measured by depth. The car enthusiast does not care that much about durability because he or she is going to wash his/her vehicle weekly and wax it once a month as opposed to every 6 months.

A car show quality shine is obtainable only through a minimal 4 step process (wash, clean, wax, seal). Some steps are repeated more than once. Cleaning, waxing, and sealing are 3 separate applications of product, and optionally, an orbital buffer is used.

The pros use a combination of products including those made by Zaino,
Poorboys, Meguiars, Klasse, Pinnacle, P21T, Chemical Guys, and Finish Kare to name a few. With the exception of Meguiar's lower lines, none of these products will be found in Walmart, Kragen, or Autozone. Most are ordered from online resources that sell only professional detailing products.

Now let's take apart the CR report.

Page 47 column 3 paragraph 2. "Turtle Wax Carnuba Car Wax T-6, can cause slight scratching or hazing on new dark-colored finishes." Don't you have a dark blue X5? Why would you want to use a product that causes scratches? Or did you miss this statement?

Page 48 under Quick Picks - "If your car has a weathered finish and needs a deep cleaning:..." CR selections are Black Magic and Turtle Wax. Any detailer knows that you would use clay, a paint cleaner, and a swirl and scratch remover to prep a paint job for polishing.

Page 49. P21S is ranked #21 for low scores in Gloss, Durability, and Cleaning. P21S is a great product, but it fails the CR test because it is not a comparable product. P21S needs to be applied after a polish in order to obtain the best Gloss results. It is a Show Car wax and therefore not designed for Durability. It is not a cleaner, therefore has no cleaning ability. This is an example of how CR takes products out of context.

Page 49. "Guide to the Ratings." The CR methodology for conducting the test to take painted metal panels with various products applied and mount them on the roof of their building for a 12 month period of time during which they would periodically bring them inside the building and spray water on the panels (probably with a high pressure water hose) to look for beading.

No use of sealant coats. No use of the use of quick detailing sprays which help to maintain wax jobs. In my opinion, this is a poor test. Nobody subjects their vehicles to that type of exposure. Most of our X5's are garaged.

I personally don't need Consumer Reports to determine my choice of crar finishing product. I helped my uncle detail cars in his body shop for over 20 years. My uncle dealt with mostly high end cars and collectables, so he was very meticulous in how he prepared his customers cars. As a result, , I learned first hand the difference between trade level car care products compared to consumer level products.

We have some veteran car enthusiasts here at X5World who have gone through the trial and error process of understanding the "right" products to use on their vehicles to obtain that elusive Car Show quality shine. We have become our own experts and have come up with our own recommendations, based on our own practical experience. We don't need Consumer Reports to tell us what products to use. We have our own personal favorites and that's what we're going to use.

Go ahead and use your Turtle Wax - your X5 is leased anyways. It's not like you're going to keep it.

One last note - Turtle Wax used to put out a silicone based wax back in the 80's (now banned) that ruined many a paint job. By working its way into the paint, the silicone made it impossible to repaint a car without first taking it down to the bare metal. It was however, both glossy and durable (as in permanent) and probably passed the CR tests back then. I swore never to use a Turtle Wax product on my car after witnessing this fiasco.

Last edited by asawadude; 06-13-2006 at 04:07 PM.
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  #33  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asawadude
You are putting way to much credence into the Consumer Report tests. I see that you're hanging your hat on the opening paragraph of their Cax Wax article which reads: "In our test of car waxes, we found that pricier ones favored by enthusiasts do not necessarily work better than some less-expensive brands. The two top performers cost $7 while a product selling for $22 ranked no better than the middle of the pack."

I believe this has been the basis for all of your posts thus far.

Consumer Report provides good general information to consumers who have no prior knowledge about specific purpose products. I would trust it implicitly for consumer information regarding lawn tractors, barbeques grills, and whole house fans, but their car wax test is definitely not geared to car enthusiasts, it is geared to the average consumer who is not very literate about car care products.

The average car consumer will wash and wax his/her vehicle on 1-2 times a year. They are looking for long lasting gloss and durability, nothing more nothing less. They are also looking for total convenience - hence the products that are labeled as cleaner/waxes.

The car enthusiast is looking for a show car quality shine where the reflection is measured by depth. The car enthusiast does not care that much about durability because he or she is going to wash his/her vehicle weekly and wax it once a month as opposed to every 6 months.

A car show quality shine is obtainable only through a minimal 4 step process (wash, clean, wax, seal). Some steps are repeated more than once. Cleaning, waxing, and sealing are 3 separate applications of product, and optionally, an orbital buffer is used.

The pros use a combination of products including those made by Zaino,
Poorboys, Meguiars, Klasse, Pinnacle, P21T, Chemical Guys, and Finish Kare to name a few. With the exception of Meguiar's lower lines, none of these products will be found in Walmart, Kragen, or Autozone. Most are ordered from online resources that sell only professional detailing products.

Now let's take apart the CR report.

Page 47 column 3 paragraph 2. "Turtle Wax Carnuba Car Wax T-6, can cause slight scratching or hazing on new dark-colored finishes." Don't you have a dark blue X5? Why would you want to use a product that causes scratches? Or did you miss this statement?

Page 48 under Quick Picks - "If your car has a weathered finish and needs a deep cleaning:..." CR selections are Black Magic and Turtle Wax. Any detailer knows that you would use clay, a paint cleaner, and a swirl and scratch remover to prep a paint job for polishing.

Page 49. P21S is ranked #21 for low scores in Gloss, Durability, and Cleaning. P21S is a great product, but it fails the CR test because it is not a comparable product. P21S needs to be applied after a polish in order to obtain the best Gloss results. It is a Show Car wax and therefore not designed for Durability. It is not a cleaner, therefore has no cleaning ability. This is an example of how CR takes products out of context.

Page 49. "Guide to the Ratings." The CR methodology for conducting the test to take painted metal panels with various products applied and mount them on the roof of their building for a 12 month period of time during which they would periodically bring them inside the building and spray water on the panels (probably with a high pressure water hose) to look for beading.

No use of sealant coats. No use of the use of quick detailing sprays which help to maintain wax jobs. In my opinion, this is a poor test.

I personally don't need Consumer Reports to determine my choice of crar finishing product. I helped my uncle detail cars in his body shop for over 20 years. My uncle dealt with mostly high end cars and collectables, so he was very meticulous in how he prepared his customers cars. As a result, , I learned first hand the difference between trade level car care products compared to consumer level products.

We have some veteran car enthusiasts here at X5World who have gone through the trial and error process of understanding the "right" products to use on their vehicles to obtain that elusive Car Show quality shine. We have become our own experts and have come up with our own recommendations, based on our own practical experience. We don't need Consumer Reports to tell us what products to use. We have our own personal favorites and that's what we're going to use.

Go ahead and use your Turtle Wax - your X5 is leased anyways. It's not like you're going to keep it.

One last note - Turtle Wax used to put out a silicone based wax back in the 80's (now banned) that ruined many a paint job. By working its way into the paint, the silicone made it impossible to repaint a car without first taking it down to the bare metal. It was however, both glossy and durable (as in permanent) and probably passed the CR tests back then. I swore never to use a Turtle Wax product on my car after witnessing this fiasco.
Outstanding ADude!

NEXT!...
BR,mD
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  #34  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:11 PM
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Asawadude.

Very thorough. Kind of like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge hammer.
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  #35  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayxi
Asawadude.

Very thorough. Kind of like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge hammer.
I think we've tried subtle before, sometimes you need sledge hammer!
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  #36  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyX5go
I think we've tried subtle before, sometimes you need sledge hammer!
Dude that was great! Information and reason very helpful.

I don't mind the hammer much better than you should something else.
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  #37  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by x54.4blue
Dude that was great! Information and reason very helpful.

I don't mind the hammer much better than you should something else.
Firstly, I am a dudette, not a dude, don't think you figured that out yet. Second, there was a which means it's a joke. Lighten up Blue.
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  #38  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:55 PM
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I was thinking a nail gun might be the instrument of choice.
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  #39  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:56 PM
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cmyX5go

My post was meant for asawadude not you, no need to lighten up was a great post!

Asawadude you should sent that to CR seems like you know more about wax than they do.

Asawadude I lease, my BMW will be lucky to see one wax job a year, what wax do you think I should use?

Last edited by E61Silver; 06-13-2006 at 05:14 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-13-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayxi
Asawadude.

Very thorough. Kind of like hitting a thumb tack with a sledge hammer.
That could be why most of the detailed plans in our West Coast operations have to come through me for final review.
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