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  #1  
Old 02-07-2007, 07:13 PM
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M-Motorsport brake calipers vs. AMG brake calipers

M3, M5, M6...all cars I'd take in a heartbeat over the automatic-tranny happy AMG rides.

Question: Did the folks at M-Motorsports drop the ball when it comes to brakes? It's like Paris Hilton decked out in designer clothes, then sporting Wal Mart shoes. Every inch of the M6 is breath-taking...that is, until a true sportscar enthusiast peeks through the wheel spokes. "Naked" metal clamps for calipers, no paint, no finish...just plain metal clamps posing next to those aggressive/sexy oversized cross-drilled rotors...paired with the impressive rims.

Uh...so like what's up???

Then you look at ALL the AMG rides...b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l calipers...for both 4 and 6 pot variants. So nicely packaged...and so "modular" looking...rival those from AP, Brembo, and StopTech.

They say 80% of a sales transaction is based on emotions. And I dare to say much of it is based on performance AND looks for cars.

BMW: You've gone 99% of the way, why let 1% detract from the marketing tone of the entire M line of vehicles?



Then there's the X5. For both the 4.6is and the 4.8is...less than impressive brake calipers. Have you seen the new Sport Edition/Supercharged Range Rover's brakes? ---> Brembos!
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2007, 07:15 PM
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:21 AM
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I'm sorry... when I think about brakes and calipers, I want to know how I'm gonna stop, not how hot they look behind the wheels. From that standpoint, BMW Motorsports did not drop the ball. The brakes are more than adequate for stopping power whether the calipers are silver, black, red, etc.

And you know they sell caliper paint that looks very nice if done right, and it's not a cheap ghetto mod. It may be inexpensive, but it doesn't cheapen the ride.

I'm glad BMW hasn't followed suit like that, and I'm rather disappointed they went with x-drilled rotors... I would have preferred to see floating or slotted if they were after true performance. Oh, and I'm not sure if they still do it, but I like the engraved ///M on my calipers
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:36 PM
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BMW brakes are more than sufficient in every model line; Bimmer models are usually at or near best of class when it comes to braking. If you don't like them, it's simple enough to swap out the rotors and paint the calipers.
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:42 PM
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You guys have no sense of style...
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUINNESS
I'm sorry... when I think about brakes and calipers, I want to know how I'm gonna stop, not how hot they look behind the wheels. From that standpoint, BMW Motorsports did not drop the ball. The brakes are more than adequate for stopping power whether the calipers are silver, black, red, etc.
. I think the new //M cross-drilled rotors are BMW's way of showing off. In the past, BMWs did not have cross-drilled rotors at all, and they still stopped shorter and were more fade-resistant than the competition. I dont give a damn how fancy the brakes look..........if I wanted to buy a car to show off, it would not be a BMW.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32
. I think the new //M cross-drilled rotors are BMW's way of showing off. In the past, BMWs did not have cross-drilled rotors at all, and they still stopped shorter and were more fade-resistant than the competition. I dont give a damn how fancy the brakes look..........if I wanted to buy a car to show off, it would not be a BMW.
class and composure...class and composure...

but i do like the ones that have that acrylic(?) coating
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:26 AM
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Okay, which cars do better in stopping distances: ///M-cars or AMG cars?
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:31 AM
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m3's.. yes.. horrible. Drive it hard on the track and notorious for brake fade. If you don't you not nearly driving hard enough. The M5 and M6 have significant improvement in terms of a true floating rotor to dissipate heat around the hat. Still a multi-piston would apply brake force much more evenly.


Quote:
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Okay, which cars do better in stopping distances: ///M-cars or AMG cars?
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:00 PM
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When paying the $106k for that M6, it almost seems strange not to have a large brake kit, given other comparable vehicle choices in that range. Again, just on looks.

But let's talk performance.

Facts about multi-piston big brake kits: It's not the immediate stopping power. Sans ABS, you can very well lock up your brakes on the Tercel just as well as an Audi sporting aftermarket 8-pot Wilwoods. It's all about stopping power at high temps. The larger thermal mass on the big brake kits (the multipiston assembly, conductive cover, and caliper block -- housing the pistons) all conduct heat much more efficiently, and doesn't become a massive heat storage element:

Mass available for heat conduction and brake fluid housing:



VS.

Mass available for heat conduction and brake fluid housing:



Both images exaggerated to support point.

Let's hypothetically say that both type of calipers were paired up with the exact same rotors (material, type, geometry, etc.) on identical make/model vehicles, the amount of heat transferred from the rotor to the caliper assembly, coming to an abrupt stop from a very high speed, would not change. So it becomes the same amount of heat being conducted to a larger mass vs. smaller mass. Given same convective cooling from the calipers to the ambient air, the caliper with the smaller mass becomes a much higher heat storage element. You couple the smaller caliper with poorly sized/ventilated rotors -- and you get a perfect recipe for boiling brake fluids.

Back to my dream BMW. The M6. Its brakes sufficient to stop the car on the road or track? Yes. Its brakes consistently good enough to resist braking fading at the track? Perhaps (and very likely). But will it out-stop a C6 Z06, a vehicle that's $30k cheaper mind you, on the race track after heavy beating? Not a chance. Granted, the M6 is a much heavier car. But both cars sport ~500 HPs. My point is the M6 doesn't have to beat the Z06 in braking (very few cars will succeed in this effort), but that BMW try to make an effort to accommodate owners (who are already buying their best in line...and we're not talking the non-M'ed 3 or 5 series) by offering a brake package that's inline with today's ridiculous demand on sports car performance.

Note I said "ridiculous" and not "competitive." Implying that you'll never need all that braking power, but it's nice to have, since cars costing much less (some AMGs, Z06's, Vipers, etc.) include them.



PS Before I go on a further rant, someone please check to see if BMW's M-series brake calipers are actually uncovered multipiston variants. Because they don't look that way (they actually look more like a slightly enlarged version of my friend's factory Volvo brakes). I bring this up because the Acura NSX's calipers, despite their "cheap" look, are indeed uncovered multipiston Brembos -- so despite the looks not being there, the performance is.
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