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  #1  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:24 PM
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What is the deal with these cars?

Okay, I've been lurking for a while now and can't take it anymore. I am in love with this vehicle (4.6is) but the things I have been reading, the conversations with some indy mechanics are really beginning to scare me away from this awesome car.

I do mostly highway travel with long distance commute in Upstate NY. Summers are awesome, winters can be a nightmare. Highways are great for drivers who like to drive but tend to be really isolated - as in don't break down out here, you'll be waiting for a while for a tow truck, middle of no where.

I'm looking for a daily driver that is fun to drive (aggressively) but still give me the winter weather, snow handling capability of an SUV. I'm looking at mostly 2003-2004 X5 4.6is with easily over 100,000 on the odometer.

Guys, I've got the itch. I test drove one of these beasts and it will easily be the best car I have ever had (coming from a 2001 Montero, supercharged, an absolute tank). But I want a real car that I can rely on. I don't want a weekend toy. Please tell me all the horror stories are just exaggerations. I simply cannot believe BMW, with all their prestige and know how would release such an allegedly shoddy car.

I've talked to indy mechanics and they all have similar things to say about the car:

"BMWs are nice cars but once the warranty runs out get rid of it."
"The X5 is a nice truck but I wouldn't buy one used".
"(laughing with a smirk) why do you want an X5? Man those cars are a big headache? (cue story about a customer)"

On and on and on...

I have found some glowing phrase for the X5 as well, but it's always tempered by a "but if etc. breaks...."

I have been researching alternatives and honestly nothing seems to come close other than a Cayenne. Oddly some one told me to test drive the Mazda CX-5 for a pleasant surprise. I know Mazda has been called the poor mans BMW by some but the lack of horsepower concerns me.

The infiniti FX series? Grand Cherokee S R/T?

I want to take the leap ($10K) but I am terrified of being stranded on the side of a mountain road in the middle of no where in the winter or summer. I also don't want a money pit.

What is the real deal with these cars?
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:40 PM
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They aren't so much shoddy as they are high maintenance. The 4.6 has it's own specific list of issues, but in general with the X5 you will find things like broken or breaking window regulators, broken door handle assemblies, stretched Transfer case chains, stripped Transfer case front drive shaft, and floppy exterior mirrors. You'll then have the typical car stuff like leaks, CV boots, suspension bushings, ect. If you don't do any DIY what so ever, any X5 outside of one being absolutely meticulously maintained will probably nickle and dime you to death. With that being said, so will any BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW, ect.

If you are looking at a 4.6 for 10k you are probably looking at the bottom of the barrel where they will cost you more to catch up on deferred maintenance. There is a low cost of entry but a high cost of living. I truly depends on how much you are willing to spend and how much you do yourself. For me, I do most of it myself and have a good network of friends and a very helpful indy. I would not hesitate to buy another X5 for myself, but I would hesitate for someone who isn't really into getting their hands dirty if they don't have deep pockets.
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:41 PM
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A $10k 4.6is is going to cost you another $4k in maintenance and repairs right off the bat if you aren't doing your own work. My 4.4i was pretty well maintained and in good shape bust still cost me $10k... and I put another $1k into it... plus I still have the leaking valve stem seals to deal with.

You won't have valve stem issues... but a 4.6is for that cheap has most likely not had it's chain guides and tensioners replaced. A big to do for the M62. About $3k in labor (depending on rates in your area) for a shop. Then you have all the misc. little interior trims, folding mirrors, and other minutia that are common needs on lower priced examples of the X5.

All that said... they are amazing vehicles. I love mine to death and will purchase a 4.8is as soon as my brother in law wants my 4.4i. I do 95% of my own work and have 4 other cars to drive though... so that really factors into my decision to own one. I have put about 10,000 miles on it in a year including many 400-600 mile trips with no issues.

An FX35 is not a bad alternative but can not hold as much stuff. The sport version drives great and feels very planted. I just got my mom into an 05 sport AWD FX35 and I loved it. Going to take her some getting used to coming from the Maxima she had before it though. The interior did not seem as nice to me as the E53 though, and just seemed to lack some refinement IMHO. Still, an excellent vehicle though.

Bottom line, if it's going to be your ONLY vehicle. Buy the most expensive one you can afford with the most complete service history. That's probably the best thing you could do if diving in.
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2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
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2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
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  #4  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:55 PM
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I'm no stranger to timing belts, water pumps, piston swaps, head removals, very large spiders that walk by as you work under the car at night (I swear to god it was so big it looked like it was walking in slow motion).

Honestly I can tolerate a fix or two every year. But I'm from the camp that once it breaks you fix it properly and shouldn't have to do so again for a long time, if not the life time of the vehicle. Timing belts and associated parts should last forever and if not there should be a long term fix in place. Same for all the other nagging stuff I've been hearing about.

I'm just really wondering how much of the stuff I've been reading, told and heard are true or just exaggerations. Again, I just find it very difficult to believe that BMW would release such a car--especially with the Japanese makes breathing down their necks and starting to infringe on BMW's territory (performance luxury).

My fiancés RX is about as bullet proof as I've ever seen any car, but when it does break it's expensive. But at least its a once and done endeavor, until eons later or the life time of the car. But it handles like...well a Lexus.

Are there permanent fixes for a lot of the nagging repairs I've been reading about. How long does the timing chain last? Valley Pan gasket? etc., etc.
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:03 PM
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The chain guide design has been revised/redesigned (as have most of the failure prone things) so it is a once and done type of repair. Unfortunately I think book time on that once is near 30+ hours by Alldata.

If you are mechanically inclined... like it sounds you are. You will be fine. I think I would still try to find one that had the guides replaced. All used Euro cars need suspension work @ ~100k so bushings, ball joints, tie rods, etc. That can all be knocked out in a day. Window regulators are a nuisance at best, and can be replaced in an hour or two. Once you've done all four you shouldn't have a problem again unless you used cheap parts. Sunroof drains need to be cleaned once a year so you don't short your electronics in the boot... yada, yada, yada.

Sounds like you will be fine though and the X5 would be a great vehicle for you. I've enjoyed mine...
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles)


2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles)

2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles)
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:16 PM
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The X5 4.6is in my opinion is simply beautiful. For the way it drives and how it does it there just isn't any comparison. I agree that maintenance is a must but your mechanically inclined and as long as you stay on it no problem. By the way these BMWs of this era can really take on the miles. I have a host of BMWs and each have been enjoyable and rewarding. My current stable includes the 635csi Euro, E39 M5, 540it and the X5 4.6is . My 540it has 178K and its a rock solid car. When I got it had the timing guide deterioration and I changed everything at the front of the engine including repairing the vanos system. I also did a complete front and rear suspension refresh that makes the car handle absolutely incredible. Everyone that has been in the car cannot believe the way it drives for the miles on the clock.
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:17 PM
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I find it easy to get to the point that I have apprehension every time I put the key in the ignition. Members come here about their problems for the purpose of getting help so you read lots of negatives and few positives.

I bought my 4.6 new. I have 114,000+ miles on it. I am a very aggressive driver. I have modded the engine considerably with Dinan air box, MAF, throttle body, engine software, transmission software, and exhaust. I had that done at about 1,000 miles. About 3 years ago I added meth injection and 150 shot of nitrous. Last year I added electric cutouts and removed the clutch fan in favor of an electric fan.

I have replaced the brake pads and rotors twice, I have redone the suspension, not because it needed it but for upgrades. I replace the MAF often but that is because of my mods. What problems are haunting you and I will let you know if I have had any of them. I haven't had many and am extremely pleased I purchased a 4.6. FYI-my 4.6 has spent it's whole life in the Dallas area. MPG is 12-15 and if you are really trying you can get 17 maybe 17.5 on the highway. Uses premium fuel.

If I were in the market for a 4.6 I would look for one that has had only 1 or 2 owners. That had all the history of what has been done to the vehicle. I would have an independent shop that specializes in BMWs do a thorough PPI. At over 100,000 miles on the clock, I would expect there will be some things that will need to be replaced in the next 50,000 miles if they haven't already been addressed. if you are not a DIYer I wouldn't make the purchase. BMW parts are costly and Labor adds a lot to the repair.

The risk of costly repairs is not inherent to BMWs. At over 100,000 miles on any vehicle stuff is wearing out. I understand you want something that is fun but if you decide to purchase an X5 for the driving you plan to do my opinion is a 3.0 would be the best choice.

That said. based on how you plan to use a vehicle, assuming it is an X5, I would search for the newest, lowest mileage 3.0 and buy a warranty to give me peace of mind that I could afford.

Driving in snow with the wide tires that come with the style 87 wheels will be more difficult that narrower winter tires. Many have winter and summer tires with their X5s.
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:20 PM
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Unfortunately there are no life time fixes for things like water pumps and timing belts (or timing chains in this case). They are simply just maintenance items that wear out with use. I had a window regulator and door handle assembly break this spring. Both were original to the car, so 12 years old at this point. That is a pretty good life span if ou ask me. I replaced them with OE BMW parts so hopefully I'll get another 10 years out of them. Thinks like valve cover and valley pan gaskets, there are no fixes short of welding the covers on. Gaskets begin to leak over time, always have and always will.

At 10k, you are going to have a lot more than 1 or 2 fixes a year. It's a used car (a 10+ year old one at that), previous owners are going to have skipped out on maintenance, and it has lasted well beyond any warranty BMW has provided, thus it is well out of their worry. BMW makes high performance vehicles and if they are reliable/low maintenance then it is a bonus.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:56 PM
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In the two years I've spent with my 4.6, I've learned their not as unreliable as they are maintenance hogs. If you familiarize yourself with problem areas, and maintenance intervals, and stick with OEM parts when "R and Ring", then you should have no reliability issues. I definitely wouldn't recommend an IS to a "drive it and ignore the gauges" person. Always good to open up the cluster menu and keep an eye on coolant temps, oil temp, alternator output, etc, etc... If you slack on maintenance, things seemingly get progressively worse fast...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegameq View Post
But it handles like...well a Lexus.
But it handles like...well, a BMW! That's what keeps me in my X5. Nothing other comes close to the quick, crisp handling of a BMW... In plain words, I love it. You will too...
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshdub View Post
They aren't so much shoddy as they are high maintenance. The 4.6 has it's own specific list of issues, but in general with the X5 you will find things like broken or breaking window regulators, broken door handle assemblies, stretched Transfer case chains, stripped Transfer case front drive shaft, and floppy exterior mirrors. You'll then have the typical car stuff like leaks, CV boots, suspension bushings, ect. If you don't do any DIY what so ever, any X5 outside of one being absolutely meticulously maintained will probably nickle and dime you to death. With that being said, so will any BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW, ect.

If you are looking at a 4.6 for 10k you are probably looking at the bottom of the barrel where they will cost you more to catch up on deferred maintenance. There is a low cost of entry but a high cost of living. I truly depends on how much you are willing to spend and how much you do yourself. For me, I do most of it myself and have a good network of friends and a very helpful indy. I would not hesitate to buy another X5 for myself, but I would hesitate for someone who isn't really into getting their hands dirty if they don't have deep pockets.
I have never broken a window regulator, door handle, transfer case chain, stripped transfer case splines or had a floppy mirror. What are the specific issues of a 4.6?
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