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  #91  
Old 03-02-2017, 10:51 AM
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I would use the stock designation. Sleepers are tons of fun.
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  #92  
Old 03-02-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
I would use the stock designation. Sleepers are tons of fun.
There's truth to that. I'm still on the fence as to what badging but I'll want better decals/emblems. Theze are from Bimmian.com and are an odd font and only 1" tall... Not a fan.

Thinking about buying the 645ci (this way I get all the numbers I want) badging from BMW and replacing the ci with iT. First world problems right?
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  #93  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:21 PM
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What happened to this????
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  #94  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:37 PM
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I'm trying not to be pessimistic and am hoping plattus just got busy with life.

But the realist in me thinks these didn't make much HP/TQ for their cost. Hopefully this is not the case.
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  #95  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:56 PM
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But the realist in me thinks these didn't make much HP/TQ for their cost. Hopefully this is not the case.
My experience with headers on my E39 is with SuperSprint. I've had them for ~11 years on the same car. I also added them to a 6cyl rice burner I ran for a few years.

My experience with NA on *anything* related to moving air- whether at intake or exhaust- is pretty much 'meh'. Manufacturers build in back pressure to make TQ before the motor really should. It sells cars 'cause folks think they're 'peppy'. I've surmised on my own experience that this is why many folks decide that NA intakes and exhaust are great for noise and something, but very little else on the dynos.

Similarly, headers and exhaust will raise the almighty HP numbers, but they will often rob that low end TQ. If you think ab a stock top and bottom end ability to produce power as being finite- which it is because the same internals can only make what they can make- this makes sense. Chips, intakes and exhaust really just move the power band around in the places that make us show higher numbers. They do this most often by providing space down (or up?) the power band when more air is moving through. Even the best enthusiast wants to see the #'s, so that's what we look for.

But if you take a close look at the before and after charts, you'll often see that the numbers peak at a different place than they did. Higher, yes. But most often later in the band- at higher RPM.

So I noticed that my SS headers made great power at around 3500-4000 RPM when there's lots of air to move out, I also noticed that it takes a little longer to actually *get* to that power- TQ moved later in the band as well. That's not to say that more isnt there- it's just that you might not catch up to that new 328 until you're rowing into 2nd- or maybe even 3rd. Not many stop light drags last a full 1320.

I made one early change to the intake on my NA V8 E39. It was an intake off a non-vanos V8. Yeah, I lost some low end TQ, but it showed up again with some new friends at around 3.5-4K. I lost early power in the band and moved it later. This made the 'peaks' higher. POOF! More power from a bolt on!

Enter FI. (Forced Induction)

Things got silly ab that same time once I added an SC. It may take a min to spin up. I might even tail at 60-120'. But once we get into 2nd gear and 4k or so, it's outright spooky. I did an onramp the other day in the SC'd E39, and the pit of my stomach felt like we'd just topped a high point on a country road. I was actually a little scared in my old(er) age.

Far from suggesting that the headers we're discussing here are equal to SS. They may be. That'd be fine. It'd be more than that. It'd be awesome, really.

More than that, this is a really long way of suggesting that the OP get himself some FI. Cause I've only seen one FI E39 iT and it was the sweetness of wagon function and complete balls to the wall motivation.

Also, it's kind of my hope to motivate anyone who wants headers to get them. They're super easy to install when the motor is out getting fitted to an SC.



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  #96  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:18 PM
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An engine is a big air pump. More air in, more air out equals improved performance. It is as simple and basic as that.

More air in as long as more air gets out combined with enough fuel to create a proper mixture is first and foremost the basis for increasing torque and horsepower. This is true of any engine, naturally aspirated or forced induction. You can improve the performance of a lawnmower engine by reducing the back pressure. The stock exhausts of manufacturers don't pump up torque or horsepower, they reduce it.

Good headers are designed to have the proper tube size, length and collector to achieve better performance where there is the most benefit. If the design is good both TQ and HP will improve where and when it is best for that particular application.

Manufactures limit the tunes so they are in a safe zone for a reliable engine that stays together, generates acceptable mileage and meets emission requirements. Aftermarket chips, even used on a stock engine are more radical to achieve better engine performance and should be one of the first consideration to improve timed from A-B. The results are increased TQ and HP throughout the RPM range. Further, in the case of some aftermarket providers, such as Dinan, the tunes are specifically designed to work with their other other mods, such as low restriction exhaust, airbox etc. Increases in torque get you going faster so the goal is have the curve start higher, peak higher and fall off slower than stock curves. HP curve goal is to start higher, generally ramp up faster and higher to the optimum crossover of the curves very near where toque starts to decline. After TQ gets you going and then maxes out, the horsepower needs to keep you going.

If the only change is a more air in and out the TQ and HP curves will be similar to stock curve but be higher at all RPMs. They should peak at a higher RPM because the engine has the air flow needed to continue to generate more HP at higher RPMs when it didn't when stock but they you should never accept less at lower RPMs. In the case of an X5, I would never recommend a mod that reduces low end TQ or HP. never settle for that, don't have to to do so. Because of the weight of an X6, got to improve HP and TQ across the RPM range and increase the redline to use all the benefit of the added airflow. Because of that weight and all wheel drive improving the torque curve should take priority.

As you said, street 'races' are short. Loss of torque in those circumstances is not the way go. Until a good launch is not possible due to excessive tire spin or some other component can't take the pain, more TQ to get you going, especially with a heavy vehicle like an X5 is the best route. Except in a few circumstances such as high speed runs or something like oval racing where RPMs are always close to redline most of the time, losing HP or TQ from a standing start, light to light, a quarter mile, likely a mile will result in a higher ET. Lots of horsepower sounds good, lots of torque is what matters most.

The best mods to get the most out of a particular vehicle are exclusive to that vehicle or model if they are both the same specs. What is successful on one vehicle can be a disastrous or ineffective on another. It's interesting to hear the results of mods to other models like an E39, but we must be very careful drawing a conclusion it is the best route with any X5.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 07-16-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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  #97  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:55 PM
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It's interesting to hear the results of mods to other models like an E39, but we must be very careful drawing a conclusion it is the best route with any X5.
All of that is true. Let's do remember that this thread is about headers on an E39.
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  #98  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:55 PM
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The OP of this thread started it about headers for a 4.4, 4.6 and perhaps a 4.8 for an X5. And, this forum is an E53 forum
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  #99  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:35 PM
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The OP of this thread started it about headers for a 4.4, 4.6 and perhaps a 4.8 for an X5. And, this forum is an E53 forum
Funny, isn't it? How threads ramble along and become something different than what- and even where they started. Like this thread, for instance. Not a peep about the OP's E53. Funny, too that no one's mentioned the E53 in six months.

The lifeline of a thread- like that of most things- makes relevance anything but binary.
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  #100  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:04 PM
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No, not funny.

Yes, started 6 months ago. That's called hijacking a thread, bozo no no. FYI-there is an E39 forum or you can start an E39 thread and see what happens.
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