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#121
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'05 E53 X5 4.4i, '97 E39 528, '07 E92 335i, '16 F86 X6M. Last edited by X5only; 03-31-2019 at 11:40 PM. |
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#122
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#123
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Fastenal, Bolt Depot, etc. will sell you very similar Class 10.9 bolts for a fraction of the cost BMW charges. If you feel the need to replace them, at least pay a reasonable price for the bolts.
AM.
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E70 2010 3.0 M57 AT Titanium Silver with Black Leather E53 2004 3.0 M54 AT Toledo Blue with Gray Leather E83 2008 3.0 N52 AT Silver Gray Metallic with Black Vinyl E46 1999 2.8 M52TU 5MT Black with Tan Leather 250K+ miles (Sold, but not forgotten) |
#124
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As to the plate needing to be dropped 5-10 times a year... mine has been off 3 times so far (once for sway bar bushings, once for cleaning/degreasing to track an oil leak, and I don't remember why the third time... maybe for fun?). Will be off again when I do the differential fluid in the coming weeks. Again, we are talking a subjective point of view. 5-10 times sounds like a lot to some of you, but to me, I'm likely to hit at least 5 this year. Dropping that plate is barely past removing wheels/tires to me, which I do a lot for cleaning. Am I strange? Probably. Certainly wouldn't be the first time I'd been called that.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles) 2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles) 2010 X5 35d Build 02/10 Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles) |
#125
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Put aside common practice, standard practice or whatever and focus only on the bolts. The bolts are torque to yield bolts. Torque to yield bolts are designed to be used only once, never reused. It doesn't matter where they they are installed.
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas |
#126
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Very well. We'll change the terminology to common practice.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles) 2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles) 2010 X5 35d Build 02/10 Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles) |
#127
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Put aside common practice, standard practice or whatever and focus only on the bolts. The bolts are torque to yield bolts. Torque to yield bolts are designed to be used only once, never reused. It doesn't matter where they they are installed.[/QUOTE]
on the attempt to clarify terminology. That usually helps. But while we're trying to keep the discussion precise and positive, I'll point out an error in your second sentence here. "The bolts are torque to yield bolts." That's not true. They are regular M10 - 1.5 x 55mm, class 10.9, hex head with captive flat washer, and a 10.9 hex nut with flange ... nuts and bolts. Some bolts are specially designed to be used in a torque to yield application, for example with a long unthreaded reduced diameter neck, so all the yield happens there rather than in the threaded section. These are not. They are regular bolts. BMW specifies that they be torqued using an initial torque plus an angle. TTA. They also specify that they be replaced when removed, which suggests that they are TTY, or torque-to-yield (that following the TTA spec will cause plastic deformation). But it is not 100% certain that they yield when following the TTA specs. To be careful, I assume they do. So in short, they are regular bolts that may be used in a TTY application. Carry on. EDIT - and a similar situation I thought of just now is the breakaway bolts on the auger shafts of my Honda snowblower. They're sold by your Honda snowblower dealer as special bolts, and when I bought the blower I bought a 10-pack for convenience. But as my supply dwindled and I looked into it, they are just M6 hex head, Class 8.8 bolts. Not even annealed or anything. Regular bolts, used in a breakaway application. Which makes sense, of course. Why make something special (like an annealed M10 when you can just use a standard version of a regular bolt). Same idea.
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2001 X5 3.0i, 203k miles, AT, owned since 2014 Last edited by oldskewel; 04-01-2019 at 03:20 PM. |
#128
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"The bolts are torque to yield bolts." That's not true. They are regular M10 - 1.5 x 55mm, class 10.9, hex head with captive flat washer, and a 10.9 hex nut with flange ... nuts and bolts. Some bolts are specially designed to be used in a torque to yield application, for example with a long unthreaded reduced diameter neck, so all the yield happens there rather than in the threaded section. These are not. They are regular bolts. Never heard they are standard bolts before. Where did you find documentation? Great! Anybody have a link to the exact bolt? BMW specifies that they be torqued using an initial torque plus an angle. TTA. They also specify that they be replaced when removed, which suggests that they are TTY, or torque-to-yield (that following the TTA spec will cause plastic deformation). But it is not 100% certain that they yield when following the TTA specs. To be careful, I assume they do. Didn't you just write that you assume there is plastic deformation (stretched to point they won't return to original specs)? That means they are not reusable. Standard or otherwise. If there is plastic deformation they should not be used again as the clamping power will be less than spec. We can't be 100% sure but oh well? So in short, there are regular bolts that may be used in a TTY application. So BMW states the torquing process of a TTY bolt just for grins, so forums can debate this forever? Carry on. EDIT - and a similar situation I thought of just now is the breakaway bolts on the auger shafts of my Honda snowblower. They're sold by your Honda snowblower dealer as special bolts, and when I bought the blower I bought a 10-pack for convenience. But as my supply dwindled and I looked into it, they are just M6 hex head, Class 8.8 bolts. Not even annealed or anything. Regular bolts, used in a breakaway application. Which makes sense, of course. Why make something special (like an annealed M10 when you can just use a standard version of a regular bolt). Same idea.[/QUOTE]
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X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior Dallas |
#129
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oldskewel is correct,
I have removed the bolt many times and compare it against a brand-new bolt. There is no deformity of the old bolt from repeated tightening and loosening. In other words, the old bolt does not lengthen when compared with a brand-new bolt. The fact that a bolt is angle-tightened does not mean it is a "use-once-and-discard" type of bolt. This has been a funny thread, especially if read by BMW or indy mechanics, as they do not replace these bolts.
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1998 E39 528i 5sp MT 2006 E53 X5 3.0 6sp MT Last edited by cn90; 04-01-2019 at 09:24 PM. |
#130
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^ Thank you! I was going to order one of these bolts in my next fcp order just measure it. LoL
Thank you to oldskewel as well. I was curious if they were even tty bolts or just used in a tta application. I was going to ask what was making us assume these were tty bolts... The torquing procedure alone? I recently did the complete front suspension on the wife's e70 and a few of those use a tta torque procedure as well. But are not stretch or tty bolts.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles) 2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles) 2010 X5 35d Build 02/10 Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles) |
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