Transmission issues

[Northwestdriven]

Hello all,
First off let me start off by saying how much I love this site!! Lots of great insight and how to's. I was hoping someone here could help me out with my latest issue. I have searched both in the site and on google and have not found the answer. I have a 2001 4.4l x5. It had recently started having the dreaded no reverse issue. No problem, sent in my tranny to be rebuilt by a reputable local transmission shop and figured I could remove and when I got it back, put it back on. Well I have received my rebuilt tranny and have bolted it back on. My issue now is That it will not engage in any gear. The driveshaft to the transfer case does not move at all when in gear, and there is a horrible grinding sound when the car is shifted into park. Park only mind you, not any of the forward gears or reverse. Any ideas of what this could be??

[CleanIsFast]

I was going to say driveshaft spindle, but then you mentioned only hearing the noise when vehicle is in park. The reputable transmission shop you brought it too should be able to figure it out, no?

[smokeyyank]

And you added fluid back according to the ZF procedure?

[williamx5]

Good day!!

Well, from what I have experienced over the years, it sounds like you have a free spinning transmission that does not have any connection to the transfer case in some fashion... That noise you hear when putting it back in park is the parking paw engaging the locking ring on the output shaft... You could test this theory by putting it in gear, then in N for a few second... You will have slight parasitic drag, but if you go right into park quickly, it won't be a grind, but more like a couple thumps which is where it will engage...

Sooooooo, how or why do you have the output shaft moving, but not the drive shaft?! All drive lines connected? Stupid question, but I have to rule out everything for us to better help you...

Hmmm, you would also not have any stability on a hill with the transmission... Your parking brake will be the only thing holding it from rolling... Can you move it with it in park and E-brake off?

Gotta check a few things... With it in park, lift one front wheel off the ground... Parking brake applied, you should NOT be able to spin the front wheel... It will rotate a little until it takes up the drive line slop... BUT NOT spin all the way around... If it does, you have a break in the drive line between the output shafts of the Transfer Case (TC) and the extension shaft in the end of the transmission...

Okay, that is a lot... Lets start there!!

Cheers!!

[Northwestdriven]

Update***

I ended up putting the car back on jackstands, the loud clicking/grinding sound seems to be coming from where the transfer case mates up with the transmission. I'm hoping I didn't miss something when putting the transfer case back in. Another symptom I forgot to mention was the car rolls as if in neutral when in park. The grinding/loud clicking only happens when the car is shifted from a driving gear and put back into park. As soon as I shift it into park the grinding starts. The oil level is correct, the shop filled it themselves, I inspected it earlier by removing the fill plug while the car was on the garage floor and level. I did try what you suggested williamx5, the grinding clicking sound did not occur but I did not feel anything engage?

[williamx5]

Originally Posted by Northwestdriven

Hello all thank you for your replies, the tranny oil level is correct. The shop topped it off themselves and I have checked as well today. I ended up jacking the car up and putting it on stand to see if I could locate the grinding sound. Seems to be coming from inside the transmission pan. Another symptom I forgot to mention was the car rolls as if it was in neutral when in park. Which leads me away from the driveline and output shaft theory and into a more serious transmission problem. I'm going to end up taking the tranny down again and having the shop inspect it.

Good day!!

Just as I thought... But, before you go taking the trans back, do a few things really quick!!!

You with me?

Your problem is one of two things, if both front and rear drive shafts are connected...

It is your transfer case chain that is now sitting in the bottom of the transfer case, allowing the planetary gears to freewheel with no resistance... Not entirely logical since you only had a failed reverse prior to sending off the transmission...


OR


You have a broken or missing output extension shaft (or the wrong one) from the rebuilder... Here again, pull the transfer case and inspect the output of the trans... That shaft (which should be visible) should NOT spin when in park... And it should spin when in any other gear selection...

You have an output speed sensor at the tail end of the trans... Oddly, it is apart of the locking ring, and if that wasn't spinning, you would have a trans fault come up rapidly... I never got a fault when I lost the drive shaft, just 4x4 and DSC lights... I have a funny feeling the output end shaft might be for the 3.0L if they are different... I don't know them enough to know from memory... researching now...

Let us know...

Cheers!!

[williamx5]

Originally Posted by Northwestdriven

Update***

I ended up putting the car back on jackstands, the loud clicking/grinding sound seems to be coming from where the transfer case mates up with the transmission. I'm hoping I didn't miss something when putting the transfer case back in. Another symptom I forgot to mention was the car rolls as if in neutral when in park. The grinding/loud clicking only happens when the car is shifted from a driving gear and put back into park. As soon as I shift it into park the grinding starts. The oil level is correct, the shop filled it themselves, I inspected it earlier by removing the fill plug while the car was on the garage floor and level. I did try what you suggested williamx5, the grinding clicking sound did not occur but I did not feel anything engage?

It is really hard to feel things engage when there isn't any resistance on it... It just grabs and goes without stopping or slowing down... I'm fairly confident it is an issue between the output shaft of the trans and the driveshafts (both)...

Oh, check the chain in the TC... front wheel again... Spin it... if it slows rapidly, the planetary gears are good... Chain is there... Another test is to go back and forth with the front wheel... you may possibly hear a slight chain slap in the TC, again verifying it is good... if you don't mind draining the TC fluid, you will be able to see the chain thru the drain hole... It should spin if you spin the front drive shaft, again verifying that the chain is good...

[Northwestdriven]

There appears to be resistance on the wheels it does spin down fairly quickly and I do hear what sounds like chain rattle from inside the TC after rotating the wheels forward and back quickly.

[williamx5]

Originally Posted by Northwestdriven

There appears to be resistance on the wheels it does spin down fairly quickly and I do hear what sounds like chain rattle from inside the TC after rotating the wheels forward and back quickly.

Yep, gotta pull the TC and see if the output shaft is the correct diameter... Like I said, I'm not up to speed on the versions available... Rebuilder may have gotten the extension shafts mixed up... Or, it is just broken... We'll know more when the TC comes down... I'd hate for you to pull the trans if you can put the correct extension shaft in with the trans still in place...

Cheers!!

[Northwestdriven]

Thank you sir, I will be dropping the TC and inspecting everything this weekend. at least at the end of this i will be somewhat proficient at removing my exhaust and crossbraces haha ��. Do the transmission output shafts vary in diameter by year as well? Could they have installed the incorrect "year" output shaft?