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Old 10-29-2018, 11:04 AM
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Head bolt thread repair...

I have an '03 3.0 six cylinder and after a couple months of chasing a "Check coolant level" error, I brought it to my mechanic who said there was coolant detected in the exhaust and likely a head/head gasket issue.

So as he started the project and undid all the head bolts, I guess there is a BMW Tech Bulletin that says to re-torque them to find out if the block is ...solid enough to work with. So, on the first bolt, the threads came out and he stopped and called me to let me know. He is suggesting/recommending a replacement motor.

So I called my other mechanic, who is more of a BMW "professional" mechanic - and a good bit more expensive (hence my going to the other mechanic) - and he said that the block can, or could be, salvaged. I watched a video from a place called Costa Mesa - Automotive Machine Shop where the guy had a pre-built plate that lines up with the head, and he bolts it onto the head in 2 places and then proceeds to methodically drill out all the head bolt threads, retap them, and uses something called "Time sert" to re-thread them. Here's a quick video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER2Mwgddjs ).

Has anyone ever done this? I am a good 'driveway' mechanic but there's no way I'm even thinking of doing this. I wonder if anyone in central Massachusetts knows of anyone who'll do it. I'm waiting to find out if my expensive mechanic has any ideas (he's pretty much retiring/retired and won't do it - but hoping he has a recommendation.

But, thought I'd ask the Forum here. Thanks in advance for any productive thoughts. I would assume, if it is successful to re-tap the block, that it is a LOT less than a replacement engine and then installing said engine...

Thank you,

Jay
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:43 AM
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Block can be time-certed or heli-coiled. Not a fun job, but certainly doable by a qualified mechanic.

Never personally done a block but have done control arm bushing lollipop mounts into the chassis before due to carelessly crossthreading one. Also done a cylinder head for valve cover bolts that a PO was kind of enough to have stripped before. Seen mechanics do heads at least a dozen times though on BMW blocks.
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:05 PM
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I put timeserts in my block this summer when I did the repair we've discussed before, on my 2001 3.0i.

I did it with a hand held drill, with the block in place, in my driveway. Carefully of course. Difficult. Not for everybody, but possible. Well, maybe it's impossible, but I did it anyway.

One fine point here that makes this timesert job a little different from most is that the top of the threaded portion in the block is about 6mm (I think) below the surface - i.e., there is a counterbore of that depth before the threads start.
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
I put timeserts in my block this summer when I did the repair we've discussed before, on my 2001 3.0i.

I did it with a hand held drill, with the block in place, in my driveway. Carefully of course. Difficult. Not for everybody, but possible. Well, maybe it's impossible, but I did it anyway.

One fine point here that makes this timesert job a little different from most is that the top of the threaded portion in the block is about 6mm (I think) below the surface - i.e., there is a counterbore of that depth before the threads start.
Thank you both! Question: Which Time Sert kit do I need?

Jay
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:48 PM
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There are different ways to do this.

the 50sKid guy just bought his own M12-1.5 tap and 14 inserts, and did it that way, rather than buying a kit. That will cost you the cost of a tap ($3-$25 depending on quality) and inserts at $2 each. He used a drill press, since he had already removed his block. He also discusses the difference between his approach and buying a kit; he gets it done, but I think he missed a few things on what the kit gets you.

I bought the M10-1.5 Timesert kit 1015A (A is for oil pan repairs, so the included inserts are all short ones, and it comes with the tap alignment guide to keep things perpendicular to the surface). Then I bought 15 (one spare) inserts on eBay for about $2 each. They are about 22mm long or so - specifically made for M54 engine blocks. Yes, we're not the only ones who needed to do this.
So for me, the Timesert-branded kit cost about $100, and then $2 per insert.
I had to use my own high quality drill bits, and some other tools to get it done with precision, despite doing it by hand. I tried building a jig, and gave up when I realized it would not help, and figured I'd be able to get it done without it.

And I think Timesert has the whole marketing locked down. Prices are controlled throughout the vendor network, including eBay.

Timesert makes their own special kit for the M54 block to account for the required counterbore, and also to ensure alignment of the holes. That costs about $400.

There's at least one guy with videos on youtube and products on eBay that made a kind of slick custom jig setup, again exactly designed for these M54 blocks. Costs around $300-$400, I think. Looks pretty clever and slick, but he seems to have developed it with the goal of minimizing time rather than ensuring mission success. He did that pretty amazingly though. I would not be surprised if I took 10x as long to get mine done, but I would not have wanted to do it the way he did, fearing failure. Watch his promotional videos and you might see what I mean. For example, the actual thread cutting is done by driving the tap at full throttle with his Milwaukee 18V driver. Pretty slick jig he designed though. If I only had a milling machine to make one ...
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
There are different ways to do this.

the 50sKid guy just bought his own M12-1.5 tap and 14 inserts, and did it that way, rather than buying a kit. That will cost you the cost of a tap ($3-$25 depending on quality) and inserts at $2 each. He used a drill press, since he had already removed his block. He also discusses the difference between his approach and buying a kit; he gets it done, but I think he missed a few things on what the kit gets you.

I bought the M10-1.5 Timesert kit 1015A (A is for oil pan repairs, so the included inserts are all short ones, and it comes with the tap alignment guide to keep things perpendicular to the surface). Then I bought 15 (one spare) inserts on eBay for about $2 each. They are about 22mm long or so - specifically made for M54 engine blocks. Yes, we're not the only ones who needed to do this.
So for me, the Timesert-branded kit cost about $100, and then $2 per insert.
I had to use my own high quality drill bits, and some other tools to get it done with precision, despite doing it by hand. I tried building a jig, and gave up when I realized it would not help, and figured I'd be able to get it done without it.

And I think Timesert has the whole marketing locked down. Prices are controlled throughout the vendor network, including eBay.

Timesert makes their own special kit for the M54 block to account for the required counterbore, and also to ensure alignment of the holes. That costs about $400.

There's at least one guy with videos on youtube and products on eBay that made a kind of slick custom jig setup, again exactly designed for these M54 blocks. Costs around $300-$400, I think. Looks pretty clever and slick, but he seems to have developed it with the goal of minimizing time rather than ensuring mission success. He did that pretty amazingly though. I would not be surprised if I took 10x as long to get mine done, but I would not have wanted to do it the way he did, fearing failure. Watch his promotional videos and you might see what I mean. For example, the actual thread cutting is done by driving the tap at full throttle with his Milwaukee 18V driver. Pretty slick jig he designed though. If I only had a milling machine to make one ...
Thanks Oldskewel. I believe I'm going to get the Time Sert kit for $445 and let my trusty/local mechanic do the work. While I MIGHT be able to, I'm not interested in messing up by the slightest bit only to be right back where I am now in a few weeks/months. I'm actually thinking, once the job is done, that I can put the kit on ebay and try to recoup some co$t.

Still smoldering a bit the the PO sold me the vehicle with no mention of this overheat situation that it MUST have gone through. Shame on me for not ...testing the exhaust fumes or radiator coolant to detect this issue. The vehicle ran very well when I went to buy it. The seller just said, "You have to top off the coolant every few trips". I can't believe they DIDN'T KNOW that it had such a significant overheat issue. Live and learn...
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:18 PM
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Search bimmerforums E39 forum for Mercedes head bolts.
No need for Timesert, simply run an appropriate tap for the Mercedes bolts, which are a tad bigger than E39 bolts.

Found the Mercedes bolt thread:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ed-some-advice
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Old 10-29-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Search bimmerforums E39 forum for Mercedes head bolts.
No need for Timesert, simply run an appropriate tap for the Mercedes bolts, which are a tad bigger than E39 bolts.

Found the Mercedes bolt thread:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ed-some-advice
Thanks Cn90. I read that thread and reached out to the guy who did the jobs... But what I learned from that thread is how nervous I am now that I don't know how badly (if at all) my engine/block/rings/cylinders/etc. MAY have been hurt during the overheat issue the previous owner put it through. I don't envision doing any drilling/re-tapping myself in my driveway, so I'll be paying to have that done.... And then wondering how well the engine will hold up; if at all...

Or do I consider just getting another engine. My mechanic has one with 98k miles for $1800 with a year warranty that will cost another $1600 or so to install........
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:49 AM
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^You aren't going to really know the condition of your pistons/valves/rings until the head is pulled. You could try a scope (or your mechanic could) through the spark plug holes and see if you can see any damage. Even if your block is perfectly usable you may still need a head if there are cracks between the valves or a coolant passage allowing coolant into the cylinders.

The more I think about it the better the mechanic's M54 and warranty sounds. Read the room and see if you can dicker a little bit and offer $3000 for the engine and work. $1800 for an M54 is a bit over priced. Actually, Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market has a 98,000 mile engine for $1500 in your area. I'm betting it's the motor he's going to sell you so he is asking $300 premium on that engine. Try dickering, worth a shot, but even $3400 is not terrible for an engine and replacement. Oh, and don't hold it against him for that $300 premium. He might have costs like having to pick up the engine, deliver, etc. It's very common business practice.

In the future (I know hindsight is 20/20), try to avoid buying a BMW from someone who thinks it is okay to have to add coolant every few trips. Giant red flag unless you can diagnose the problem and fix on your own. Used BMW's get real expensive, real fast, while paying someone else to work on them. Sorry for your experience, and my, now, rather obvious insight. It happens to us all... has certainly happened to me.


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Old 10-30-2018, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpilk99 View Post
Thanks Oldskewel. I believe I'm going to get the Time Sert kit for $445 and let my trusty/local mechanic do the work. While I MIGHT be able to, I'm not interested in messing up by the slightest bit only to be right back where I am now in a few weeks/months. I'm actually thinking, once the job is done, that I can put the kit on ebay and try to recoup some co$t.

Still smoldering a bit the the PO sold me the vehicle with no mention of this overheat situation that it MUST have gone through. Shame on me for not ...testing the exhaust fumes or radiator coolant to detect this issue. The vehicle ran very well when I went to buy it. The seller just said, "You have to top off the coolant every few trips". I can't believe they DIDN'T KNOW that it had such a significant overheat issue. Live and learn...
If I were choosing between the TimeSert $400 kit and the eBay guy's kit, I'd choose the latter. I just would not use it at full power like he does in his videos. He actually has a v2.0 kit where he makes his own inserts that are oversized and are driven in with an internal hex. And he of course does the 6mm counterbore, etc. Pretty cool, if you want to research that.

He has developed his solution specifically for the BMW blocks. Vs. TimeSert, which has their own standard thread repair solution that they developed and then made a custom jig set for these blocks. It's not rocket science, and from my looking into it (mostly just interested in it), I was more impressed with the eBay guy's solution.

And I don't know what your skills are, but I would definitely not just assume that a guy that fixes cars for a living would have the precision touch needed to do this properly. You might be better than he would at this job.

Yes, tough break on buying it without full disclosure / knowledge. Following your story, I seem to notice more and more of these BMW I-6 engines on craigslist for cheap with nebulous descriptions of coolant leaks, etc. And I bet they are ALL like yours was. In my case, we had a brief, minor issue right before I had to do the rebuild, but I actually think the damage was done (based on service records from the PO - CCV and many cooling parts replaced in a huge dealer servicing) about 11k miles prior to my purchase, which was 28k miles ago now.

And maybe the guy honestly didn't know how serious the problem was. It may not seem so bad if you choose to believe that option vs. that he purposely deceived you.

On the condition of the rest of the engine - yes, you won't know until you get in there, or at least do a borescope / compression test / leakdown test. But on my '01 with 186k miles, I was blown away at how GOOD it looked in there.

My head was not cracked, and even the head gasket looked fine. In my case the head was just warped. So the machine shop just had to surface the head (clean and pressure test as well, of course) and did not even need to mill off enought to warrant the thicker (1.0mm vs. 0.7mm) head gasket. So I replaced with a new 0.7mm one. It apparently does not take much to cause the coolant combustion gases problem that you, I, and many others had.
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