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  #31  
Old 03-19-2019, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talljames View Post
… Interesting to note that the battery isn’t what I was expecting. A Century and even though it has more CCA I dont think it is correct one for my car. ...
It's the exact same battery I have in my 3.0d diesel - and also not what I was expecting to see. This model battery could be the most "unloved" battery on Xoutpost…

According to the Aussie Century battery web site, the DIN85LMF IS the correct battery for your car, and mine... but according to the NZ Century web site, the DIN88ZLMF is the correct battery. Maybe because it's colder over here?
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2019, 01:40 AM
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Thanks. This is the original spare rim so I am not surel if that is the case. Anyway, I have ordered a new one. Rather have it clamped down then the threaded bolt bent which I suspect has already happened.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Battery was charged, the test was done at battery plus with a state of the art tester that have a print out of a "perfectly operational" battery that had no problem putting out 500A but literally could not run an iPhone for 30 minutes.

So back to my original comment that a load test even from a modern tester can not measure capacity and can in fact give you a false sense of security with a glowing report on a battery that is end of life.
A store that specializes in selling batteries does not have the capability to properly test a battery and errs on the side of not making a sale?

I think a state of the art battery tester/charger is one of those must have 'tools' for a DIYer. I use a CTEK 7002. About two years ago I took a battery to get replaced under warranty. I had already tested it and knew it was bad. It tested good. It was a new hire at the parts store that didn't do the procedure correctly. I insisted it was bad and asked the guy I normally deal with to run the test again. It tested bad. About two weeks later I started having the same problem. I made the mistake of not testing the new battery first. I assumed it was not the battery since I had been cleaning up the wiring for the switches in my console. I finally tested the battery and it was out of the box bad. Certainly there are lots of other electrical problems that can drain a battery. My point is to eliminate the battery first since it is easy to do and there is no cost. If members want to take your advice that's fine.
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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It literally sounds like you are saying the same thing as myself. You just literally said don't trust the test done by the battery sale store which is exactly what I've been saying. I'm not familiar with the tester you described but I'm willing to bet it tests for capacity and therefore does an actual test.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:21 PM
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I'm doubtful about the accuracy of any battery test that can be done in minutes over the counter, even without concern for the guy screwing things up. So in my belief, results from there will often NOT be definitive and conclusive. Good enough for many, and often it's the best you can reasonably do, but ...

What I do whenever I can is to get my fleet set up so I have cars with interchangeable batteries. So whenever I get a situation where I'm getting weird battery stuff, after doing all the easy testing, charging, etc. I can do, if doubt remains, I just can swap batteries between cars and see if the problem goes away.

Not much harder than taking a battery into the store for questionable testing.

It does take a little effort up front, when buying new batteries for each car. Sometimes I run with a slightly smaller or slightly bigger battery (that obviously still fits and works), to enable this more definitive testing.

For example, the battery in my 2001 X5 is exactly interchangeable with the one in my 2004 Cayenne. I have not done it yet, but if I ever think one of the batteries has a problem, I can swap them pretty easily to see if the problem stays with the car or with the battery.

And for diagnosing simpler battery problems, I've found the most telling failure is that when charging up a battery on my 25A smart charger, it goes from dead to full very quickly (minutes vs. hours).

BTW, this method helps for general electrical debugging as well as battery management. Many electrical problems present intermittently, and can be tough to isolate. Very often, a correct and wise decision may be made that the problem could be due to a weak/bad/intermittently failing battery. So the step is taken to buy a new battery and see what happens. Which is great, unless the new battery did not fix the problem (although it often improves things), and you've done nothing but spend $$ and remove doubt about the new battery ... unless the new battery needs to be doubted too. By swapping in a battery from a second car with no problems, it is already known to be good.
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:46 PM
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Looked up the 7002 and not only agree with the assessment from @bc above, I'm going to put that on my father's day wish list.

I don't know how much charge the 7002 pulls out of the battery to test that it can hold a charge but it does claim to do some form of a drain test, it doesn't do a load test so that would still need to be done at a battery store or mechanic.

I've only been borrowing basic chargers in the past, this thing is a very nice charger and importantly can act as voltage supply when disconnecting battery for repair etc

You might ask why ? Because it can only supply 7a vs 900 so things won't explode if you accidentally short something out, but if you manage to avoid shorting out anything you don't need to reprogram everything.
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  #37  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:51 PM
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A battery that "charges too quickly" is a perfect example of a sure problem with any battery.

I like having a pair of near clone X5 as it comes in very helpful when I can swap parts either for diagnosis or getting a car functional in a hurry (fuel pump, cam shaft sensor, tires for example)
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  #38  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:22 PM
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No, we are not saying the same thing. I suggested it is not a good idea to assume the expertise of the tester not that a state of the art tester doesn't cover all necessary testing to confirm the state of the battery. My interpretation is that you are saying you have to do other testing on you own that the battery evaluation procedure of a state of the art tester doesn't do. I disagree. In my view you shouldn't have had to do any testing of your own, the Battery Plus testing was flawed.

Not removing a surface charge or testing a battery when it is not fully charged can screw up testing. I used go through the desulfating procedure, then the slow low amp charge cycle and then the battery test. No need to now. Test button does any needed prep. If folks don't feel comfortable until they do a capacity check have at it, won't hurt anything or just ask the parts store if their test includes capacity check if they think that is important.

I've done capacity checks on deep cycle marine batteries. Testing a deep cycle battery was draw over time based on the battery specs there was no rule of thumb that covered all batteries.
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  #39  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:35 PM
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Battery for E53 2005 4.4i

I said: one can not rely entirely on the test done at a battery shop to determine the end of life of a battery.

You said (paraphasing): "if you own your own tester that does the proper tests you can eliminate the not entirely reliable battery store test"

Not exactly sure how that's not the same thing. We are both saying that the test done at the store is not entirely reliable. (That is the ONLY common point I was saying we are saying the same thing)

I specifically did NOT say there aren't tools you can buy that can do a better job. I did not say we were in lock step agreement, I just said the store/mechanic load test can give you inaccurate results regarding battery end of life.

I didn't say you "had to do" any particular thing, I pointed out just that a typical test can say a battery is fine and can't be trusted 100%.

That if you, like me get a battery tested, they send you home with a clean bill of health, you may have a capacity, not a current capability problem.

I offer real world simple methods that can be done without buying a tool that costs as much as the battery somebody wants to test. I'm quite sure if it happened to me it will happen to other people.

The average person that has a couple times they need a jump will assume battery. They go get it load tested and if it passes they will be very confused.

There are a couple reasons that can happen and one that recently happened to me, so I'm sharing a real world actually happened not theoretical story so when somebody else in the future has the same symptoms they can maybe track down the actual problem.

Is there a chance my old battery could have just had surface charge interfering with capacity and could have been bright back to life with the 7002? Yup.

Did I make a judgement call to upgrade to the AGM Battery because the old battery was 4-6 years old and I didn't want the unknown? Yup.

Not exactly sure what the "argument" is here. Coming from a standpoint of the 99% of folk that will not have a conditioning battery charger at home; their option is to take the battery to a store with a load tester. Some non-zero % of the time that test will report the battery is fine when it's not. It happened to me, that's why I'm sharing so when it happens to somebody else they can do a free test to double-check it is the battery before they start replacing their alternator or starter when it was just a battery that had plenty of current capability but no capacity.

FYI n>1, it was tested a few times, different stores, different testers, different operators, also with an "old school" pure resistive tester, they all reported battery was OK. If it happened to me it'll happen to somebody else.

I agree with the idea every DIY'r should have something like the 7002, it's in my Amazon wish list I'm going to get one, but it's not for everybody. The average Joe that needs to replace a battery every 5-8 years or every 3-4 years when you factor a couple cars, the $ is better spent paying for 3/4 of a new AGM battery.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 03-19-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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  #40  
Old 03-19-2019, 07:20 PM
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How do these state of the art testers handle intermittent problems? I'll guess they can't handle all of them. State of the art does not mean infallible. Never did, never will, regardless of how much the art advances.
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