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  #1  
Old 09-17-2019, 10:21 PM
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5hp24 no reverse when warm

Hi guys,

Itís been some time since I last posted any news about my car. My transmission finally gave up after 5 years of resurrecting it with basic stuff (not tearing it apart).

So, I took the ďeasyĒ route buying a used one to replace this one, but my luck wasnít good. It was worst than mine so money thrown in for a bad one. My mechanic took it out again and then I bought another from other party, this time it came better and fluid looked good, BUT after installing it and started testing it seems reverse is bad bc when warm itís not working fine if Iím a little inclined with the rear up and front lower.

My question is, can it be that I have such bad luck to put two transmissions that are not good?

Or can it be low on atf? My mechanic says he put correct amount of fluid but I doubt it bc I can hear a hissing noise in park and changing between gears while parked and another whining noise just before changing gears from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd. I couldnít hear it in higher gears. This happens if I apply a lot of gas (spirited driving)

I must admit that when sheís cold the reverse takes a little bit of time to engage but it still works. The problem arises when itís fully warmed.

Any comments will be very appreciated as always.
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:43 AM
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The C-drum is not engaging. Most likely ATF fluid is escaping so no pressure is present, so no drum engagement so no reverse.

Gary Ferraro has an excellent video on this problem. You should send one of the bad trans to Gary's shop to have it rebuilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClkulOg1bA
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:48 AM
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ZF production modification 8740B from 1st August 2001 onwards replaced the F-brake (Reverse clutch) piston with one with a more durable seal material as the outer edge of the piston seal would wear badly and leak. Leakage is particularly bad once the fluid warms up as it becomes less viscous, pressure then drops and the clutch slips.





Piston 0501 208 317 was superseded by 0501 212 967.





If you let me have the serial number off the ID plate on the LH side of the casing I can tell you the build date of your transmission.





Phil
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
The C-drum is not engaging. Most likely ATF fluid is escaping so no pressure is present, so no drum engagement so no reverse.

Gary Ferraro has an excellent video on this problem. You should send one of the bad trans to Gary's shop to have it rebuilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClkulOg1bA
I wish I could find someone capable like him near me but thatís not an option. Iím in Costa Rica.

Iíll try checking fluid level asap and see if sheís missing some.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRPhil View Post
ZF production modification 8740B from 1st August 2001 onwards replaced the F-brake (Reverse clutch) piston with one with a more durable seal material as the outer edge of the piston seal would wear badly and leak. Leakage is particularly bad once the fluid warms up as it becomes less viscous, pressure then drops and the clutch slips.





Piston 0501 208 317 was superseded by 0501 212 967.





If you let me have the serial number off the ID plate on the LH side of the casing I can tell you the build date of your transmission.





Phil
Hi Phil, why donít you live in Costa Rica!?

Itís an old one, I think itís from 2000 or so, serial number is 262170. Funny is mine is a 2002 and reverse is perfect, but forward isnít.

Iím planning on buying parts and try repair my original transmission but I donít know if itís too hard to do for me. Iím a diy guy and have some tools but never worked on transmissions before.

What do you think Phil?
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:45 PM
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Yes, your 262170 transmission came off the production line on 28 October 1999, so itís a pretty early one.

The 5HP24 is very straight-forward to strip and rebuild. You could have a browse through the Repair Manual and see what you think: http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepa...r%20Manual.pdf



All of the Ďspecial toolsí can be improvised, the important ones being for compressing the clutch springs. You would need to source the ZF overhaul kit (seals and gaskets only, no clutch plates), ideally the 3 steel pipes, a B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum bearing and a genuine IBS Filtran filter. Obviously you should only use the genuine fluid (ZF Lifeguard Fluid 5/Pentosin ATF 1/Mobil ATF LT71141)





You may choose not to strip and rebuild the valve body assembly, as it isnít covered by the Repair Manual. It is the most fun bit, though



What went wrong with your original transmission (i.e. the one you're thinking of rebuilding)?

Phil
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRPhil View Post
Yes, your 262170 transmission came off the production line on 28 October 1999, so itís a pretty early one.

The 5HP24 is very straight-forward to strip and rebuild. You could have a browse through the Repair Manual and see what you think: http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepa...r%20Manual.pdf



All of the Ďspecial toolsí can be improvised, the important ones being for compressing the clutch springs. You would need to source the ZF overhaul kit (seals and gaskets only, no clutch plates), ideally the 3 steel pipes, a B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum bearing and a genuine IBS Filtran filter. Obviously you should only use the genuine fluid (ZF Lifeguard Fluid 5/Pentosin ATF 1/Mobil ATF LT71141)





You may choose not to strip and rebuild the valve body assembly, as it isnít covered by the Repair Manual. It is the most fun bit, though



What went wrong with your original transmission (i.e. the one you're thinking of rebuilding)?

Phil
Thanks Phil for your reply,

The original one that came with my car, was really abused, poorly maintained (to say the least) just like the rest of the car. It was overheating when I bought her, and I was totally blind, fell in love with the car, but didn't know all the gremlins and demons in her. So, long story short, transmission was slipping, my first mechanic changed fluid and filter, but didn't do much, since the damage was done already.

Reverse works, but forward is not, when I press the gas pedal it revs up, I can feel a little shake, no force at all, then the trans failsafe prog message appears. Last time it was working reverse didn't want to engage (normal operating temp), I reved her up, and then a bang and metal noise (grinding) sounded. Limp mode was on by then, so I drove my car very slowly to my home (not far from where it happened) and let her sit for about 3 days, since I got another car. Then I started her again and tried to go for a short ride to test the damage. It went into reverse with no problem and no grinding noise at all, then I put D and applied the gas gently, no issues and no noises so far, but when I pressed the gas pedal more firmly it started to slip and got trans failsafe prog again.

So, she was sitting for several weeks until I got some spare time to go find another used transmission, and both came bad for reverse, not forward.

I got my transmission out, but I don't know what parts to buy on ebay or whatever place.

What do you think? I don't want to invest a lot of money on this car, I love her, but it won't make sense to me to spend more money than what she's worth now.

The sad part of the story, besides all this, is that I spent a lot of money on parts to recover her to better days, lots of new oe parts, even in the engine, so it's really hard to me to let her go.
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:54 PM
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Could be something straightforward like the A-clutch drum thatís gone (the A-clutch is used in 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears)



or maybe the B-clutch hub/C-clutch drum axial bearing has failed (which causes an O-ring sealing the A-clutch to split)







Certainly worth a look, if you have the transmission just sat there anyway. It wonít cost anything, other than your time, to tear it apart - just to get an idea of how extensive any damage is.

Phil
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:54 PM
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Surely with three transmissions to play with, one with no forward and two with no reverse, it might be possible to cobble together one good working transmission.

At this point it's just time, tools and fluid, although once you know what the issues are, it might be prudent to buy new seals etc - since you're in there.
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Last edited by wpoll; 09-18-2019 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:17 PM
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Ok. I’ll give it a try and take photos of every step.

Any considerations I should take before doing anything?

The transmission was a lost for me anyways but just want to make sure I won’t make more damage while dissecting it.

Thank you guys.

Phil, I’ll ping you on my findings if that’s ok for you
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