No start after transmission repairs..

[turquise1]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

It's monumentality frustrating to get into a pickle like you are in no doubt. I wished I had a spare CPS to bring your way I'll be in Rogers Park again Tuesday-Thursday and can try to meet up maybe successful this time. I had two projects both fall apart on me (1 hour job take three days kind of deal) so my last trip was hell.

It does "feel like" CKP but also: have you tried running with the MAF unplugged yet? And what scanner are you using, can you monitor real-time cam requested and actual to maybe see what's going on.

Did you change your flywheel or just remove and replace? The CKP im sure is just as pain in ass as abs and CPS regarding tolerances. One friggin mm off and they will not work. Compare your old and new CKP make sure that the o-ring is not interfering (if it has one), also remove and wipe it clean a little film of rust can through things off.

CPS sensors and CKP are replaced with new OEM ones with no results. It is the same flywheel. I took it out to replace a gasket behind it. There was a coolant leak from back there.


Meanwhile, after reading some other posts last night, I took out the intake manifold to see if there is anything that got damaged during the transmission installation. A lot of oil leaked in there. I will report my findings soon..


Thanks,


Ozzie

[andrewwynn]

You could have an intake leak causing problems. Perseverance pays off you will find it.

[Redraptor141]

May be worth taking stock of what you have/haven’t checked so far? May prevent everyone going round the buoy.

The fact the car does start and runs even for a few seconds is a good sign. It indicated the ECU is meeting all the perimeters it requires to start. That indicates that timing is good enough for combustion to at least take place for one!

I think it was mentioned that the ECU forgoes a few engine protection measures on start up. Aka some stored fault codes and so on. So it would indicate that there is something physically wrong causing a error signal to the ECU or a bad sensor wiring causing the bad signal.

With that in mind
you have checked your Exhaust physically for blockages
Changed The crank and cam sensors for OEM replacements
Inspected the injector and coil wiring, plugs and connectors.
Observed you have one hot bank and one cold bank. With no back pressure from the cold side.

You could swap the O2 sensors over (but it seems you did this anyway by proxy! So almost rules them out)

The MAF could be the culprit but unlikely as you appear to have one good bank and one bad, the MAF serves both sides.

The intake manifold could be damaged, cracked on your cold bank. But the intake leak would have to be huge to upset the engine that badly. That being said, it is definitely worth full inspecting the intake. May be a blockage? Anyone shove a rag in there to stop things going down it and it’s got pulled down into one bank?

Oil in the intake? Do the M62 have an EGR system? Or is it it just crankcase blow by being fed into the intake to be burned? If so A light coating of oil in this case would be considered normal. (Bearing in mind I’m a diesel driver so I’m used to half an inch of soot in my intakes lol) so maybe one of the V8 guys can confirm

Personally I still feel your symptoms point towards an electrical issue with your “cold” bank. Have you checked the injector wiring loom? If you are confident you are getting spark, intake air and you have a clear exhaust. Maybe the issue lies in the delivery of fuel?

But this theory doesn’t explain the double cam advance fault codes. But may be worth a look?

I’ve heard stories of the Vanos systems taking a dump when they are knocked about or just generally even looked at! So is there a way to check that the vanos is in the correct position/operating correctly? As if it is advanced when it shouldn’t be would that throw the code or would that produce a Vanos related code? Again I’m used to older Rover V8s so modern VVT engines it may be worth speaking to one of the V8 guys on here who’s more upto date with that system.

Again I guess that it would be weird for both banks to go south at the same time, or is it a single point of control/single loom? May be worth inspecting. But also you could say this is unlikely as you wouldn’t have touched this during the transmission work? But equally modern cars love to just sit there and break! My E53 decided being sat for 6 weeks during lockdown that it was the perfect time for all the front bushes to let go! Just sat on the drive lol

I know all this contradicting advice must be frustrating, but keep at it. The more stuff you can categorically cross off the better. Makes the possibility’s list shorter.

[Redraptor141]

Found a procedure on Pelican for how to test the Cam Sensors are working correctly, see below

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...or_Testing.htm

Reading through that procedure that should test the wiring, sensors relays everything. Then you should be able to say without a doubt the cam sensors and wiring are operating correctly. What I would say is check for a gradual increase from 0-12 volts as you rotate the engine. If you get sudden jumps in voltage or say, no voltage then you turn and suddenly your at x,y,z voltage then is smooth from that point, it may suggest wiring damage somewhere. We have had a couple of faults on the aircraft at work where when a HV system would spoil up and reach a certain voltage or ampage then would arc out of a damaged wire and the signal power would drop off. (Basically the wigglys needed enough umpff to jump the gap but worked fine under that “critical” power load)

Vanos testing seems quite simple in regards to the actuators. Just copy and pasted this from BMWTuning.

Apologies to any moderators if I’m not allowed to post links.

https://bmwtuning.co/vanos-problems-symptoms-repairs/

How to Diagnose and Repair a Failed Single Vanos Unit

If you are experiencing rough idling you can unplug the electrical connector on the Vanos actuator solenoid. If you continue to experience rough idling after unplugging this connection, then it is likely a faulty Vanos actuator.

The only fix here is to rebuild the Vanos actuators using a rebuild kit or to replace the full unit.

[Redraptor141]

Sorry for the 3rd post in a row! But I came across this post from 2014. May be worth taking a look through?

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...ing-m62tu.html

Same fault codes, the OP retimed his engine and the code went away. Read on another forum as well. Said something about 10 or 20 degrees on the computer before it chucks up a code. And this code basically shuts off the Vanos and shoves the car into limp mode and all sorts! If you have the timing kits could it be worth checking the physical cam
Position is correct and the vanos issnt advanced on start?

On the other forum (trying to find the damn link) it said the engine starts fully retarded on timing then increases timing as revs increase. So when the timing was set up with the engine off the Vanos had to be set in the fully retarded position. If it was forward of this it would go over the 20 limit and chuck up a soft code first then a hard code and EML on the second instance

But I’d 100% get the correct procedure if you want to go down that route.

I’d do the cam sensor serviceability check before cracking open timing covers!

[turquise1]

Originally Posted by Redraptor141

Sorry for the 3rd post in a row! But I came across this post from 2014. May be worth taking a look through?

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...ing-m62tu.html

Same fault codes, the OP retimed his engine and the code went away. Read on another forum as well. Said something about 10 or 20 degrees on the computer before it chucks up a code. And this code basically shuts off the Vanos and shoves the car into limp mode and all sorts! If you have the timing kits could it be worth checking the physical cam
Position is correct and the vanos issnt advanced on start?

On the other forum (trying to find the damn link) it said the engine starts fully retarded on timing then increases timing as revs increase. So when the timing was set up with the engine off the Vanos had to be set in the fully retarded position. If it was forward of this it would go over the 20 limit and chuck up a soft code first then a hard code and EML on the second instance

But I’d 100% get the correct procedure if you want to go down that route.

I’d do the cam sensor serviceability check before cracking open timing covers!

Thanks for your insightful posts. I have been reading a lot about multiple misfires and camshaft codes and there were too many reasons including broken timing chain guides, PCV valves or cracked intake manifolds. There is a lot to look at. I would have given up long time a go if I did not like this car a lot. Just love the driving experience..


My next move is going to rent my own garage and raise the car and look at the cables around the transmission first. I still suspect electrical issues. I think the 20 second delay is when the car gets to idling and things get crappy (or crappier) when idling starts.



The other reason I took the intake out is to see if there was any damage done when we were trying to fit the transmission back in there. There was a lot of shaking left / right as we pushed the transmission in there which I thought would cause some sort of damage around PCV valve or the hoses.


I actually even started wondering (do not laugh) if I put anything inside the end of the exhaust manifold pipe temporarily, like a nut or a bolt as we were working on lowering the whole exhaust system which may be causing a blockage there..


As I said, too many variables..


Thanks again,


Ozzie

[turquise1]

Originally Posted by Redraptor141

I’d do the cam sensor serviceability check before cracking open timing covers!

One other theory from the garage owner who I rented the place from was skipped timing chain. Not sure if that would be possible as we were rotating the crank to install the flywheel bolts but vanos may 'crap out' in such process for sure..


For that I will have to take the cover out and look in there as well..


Thanks,


Ozzie

[EODguy]

I am not sure if it could cause your symptoms but removing and replacing the vanos on my N62 I used my Foxwell to (park?) the vanos before removing and followed the steps in the menu. I'd think that since they list it as a set of steps it must do some sort of either physical start position or DME secret ninja magic to allow new adaptations.

Probably totally wrong on my part but wanted to throw it out there...

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[turquise1]

Originally Posted by EODguy

I am not sure if it could cause your symptoms but removing and replacing the vanos on my N62 I used my Foxwell to (park?) the vanos before removing and followed the steps in the menu. I'd think that since they list it as a set of steps it must do some sort of either physical start position or DME secret ninja magic to allow new adaptations.

Probably totally wrong on my part but wanted to throw it out there...

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

I will look in there next once I put the intake back together and it looks like a mess now, a little intimidating


Thanks,


Ozzie

[turquise1]

Originally Posted by turquise1

I will look in there next once I put the intake back together and it looks like a mess now, a little intimidating


Thanks,

Ozzie

Update :

Looks like I have found the problem. I finally pulled up the Bank 1 side valve cover and first thing I saw was the exhaust camshaft sprocket being loose. The bolt was about to fall off actually. So, that means there was no movement on the exhaust side and quick shut down by Engine Computer.

With the hope of no engine damage, I will re-time that side and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help once again,

Ozzie