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  #11  
Old 07-17-2020, 03:01 PM
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Keeping it simple, focusing on the known issues before trying to decipher the rest of it ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmontana View Post
...
on a lift yesterday, when in D ...
front wheels nothing.
The drive shaft from the transfer case to the front diff spins ...

I brought up the front CV issue and how they have to be very tightly installed and he said "come on man I know what I'm doing, etc"
The TC on these cars (2001 3.0i) can be thought of as being an open differential. Very simple. A single opening anywhere - loss of traction on one tire, a failure in one CV axle, splines out in one driveshaft, etc. will cause total failure. That opening will spin, and no torque will be transmitted to any wheels. Rear wheels might freewheel as you notice, just supported by drag in the TC, but there is no significant torque behind it. And BTW, that simplicity is the only redeeming factor of this vs. the other TCs on these X5s, so may as well try to use it here.

So keeping it simple, your description says:
you see the front driveshaft moving, but the front wheels are not moving. Right?
There is nothing but gears, shafts, and bearings between the front driveshaft and the wheels. So the problem is in there somewhere. Do the CV axles turn? You should be able to pretty quickly isolate the problem (or at least narrow it down) with the engine off and the front wheels off the ground, just by turning each of the front wheels by hand and seeing what the front driveshaft and other CV axle do.

And that "come on man ..." - LO effin L. Get out of there while you still can.
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2020, 03:52 PM
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we are all just chasing our tail unless the original poster comes back with the second post. my common phrase new doesnít mean Fixed doesnít necessarily mean brand new. maybe I should say replaced doesnít mean fixed in the future. The point is regardless of what parts were exchanged you have to go with what the symptoms are to find the problem.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
Since most people will not replace the Diff with a brand new diff since it is too costly for the current crop of X5 owners, they will buy a used diff to replace it. What are the odds of buying a used diff with exactly the same problem as the original diff? Maybe he is better off playing the lottery with that type of odds.



OP had the car on a lift or jackstands and tested the powertrain. The wheels spin when place in drive and reverse. What this test doesn't do is test the powertrain components under load ie with the weight of the car on the powertrain.



Stripped front drive shaft splines are a common problem with these cars. He already stated that he can heard grinding sounds. Now he can waste more time and money chasing other solution but I would look at the common known failure problem before wasting time and money on other "Questionable Problems".


Re reading I did say replaced.

Odds of replacing a differential with another differential that has a stripped gear very small.

odds of a mechanic thatís not super qualified swapping a working differential with a different working differential because the CV axle was loose pretty high.

No qualified mechanic will skip the step of hand turn the input of the dif To confirm or deny that the output shaft are both turning before installing or before removing.

Unless I missed something the front Drive propeller was turning which means it was not a transfer case spline which is the common problem described above.

mechanic with experience of a skipping spline will definitely know the difference of the sound versus broken gears.

I have interacted about six of these discussions on Xo. 3 were CV came out, two were TC spline one was dif internal destruction.

And the only post from the original poster it says the front driveshaft was turning and the front wheels were not turning those the back wheels were.


This means the problem is in front of the propeller and I have never heard of a CV joint breaking to the point where it will turn inside itself so the odds are very good the CV axle is loose. Possibly from a previous repair an incompatible part was used where the inner splines were not long enough to properly engage the differential.

At this point itís just a thought exercise because we have no additional feedback but the discussion as it will hone our diagnostic skills
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2020, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Re reading I did say replaced.

Odds of replacing a differential with another differential that has a stripped gear very small.

odds of a mechanic thatís not super qualified swapping a working differential with a different working differential because the CV axle was loose pretty high.

No qualified mechanic will skip the step of hand turn the input of the dif To confirm or deny that the output shaft are both turning before installing or before removing.

Unless I missed something the front Drive propeller was turning which means it was not a transfer case spline which is the common problem described above.

mechanic with experience of a skipping spline will definitely know the difference of the sound versus broken gears.

I have interacted about six of these discussions on Xo. 3 were CV came out, two were TC spline one was dif internal destruction.

And the only post from the original poster it says the front driveshaft was turning and the front wheels were not turning those the back wheels were.


This means the problem is in front of the propeller and I have never heard of a CV joint breaking to the point where it will turn inside itself so the odds are very good the CV axle is loose. Possibly from a previous repair an incompatible part was used where the inner splines were not long enough to properly engage the differential.

At this point itís just a thought exercise because we have no additional feedback but the discussion as it will hone our diagnostic skills


First off, thank you everyone. Truly appreciate everything here.

I bought car AS IS from a copart auction. My 4th purchase this year, 3 land cruisers and an lx470, all have arrived in working condition matching the description on the auction listing.

The X5 said "normal wear, runs & drives" When it arrived off the carrier, it did neither. The battery was too dead to start it it with the pack provided by the driver and I couldnt reach the trunk to swap one out. We got enough juice for lights and to put the trans in N.

So I rolled it off the truck, a big multi car hauler, in N, when I hit the brakes it didnt really do much of anything until I pulled the E brake. I'd say I hit the pavement pretty hard, wondering if that could have caused something to snap lose on the front axel.


Anyway, after swapping out the battery for my backup she started right up, I was pumped but it didn't move in gear, rolled in P, made that fine grinding noise going back into P from D that I described earlier.

Got it towed to my "mechanic" who is not great but, has been great when I need to drop off a company car for a master cylinder or brake pads, starter, etc. Lets me bring my own parts, very reasonable prices, etc.

Once we got it on the lift and hit the gas in D we all noticed a rattling noise from the front diff, sounded like a large bolt was being shaken around a metal box or something.

So I went to a yard nearby and got a front diff, it was clean, no gear wear, oil was still visable, it was clean and when I turn the part that bolts to the front drive shaft, the internals seemed to move nicely, everything felt good.

Also, when I spun the front wheels with the car on the lift, the other did not move. When I did this with the rear wheels, the other wheel spun in the opposite direction. When I spun the front pass wheel, the front driver wheel did not spin.

I wasn't there to check how this worked after he swapped the diff and when I got back it was on the ground and still no movement. But it felt like it was almost there, you could feel the car sort of kick or jerk or try and give you a little push when In D or R when previously the drive shaft was just spinning freely with that rattling noise from the front diff.

I was ready to go buy some after market front drive shaft assembly and just have him swap it out, I know its not the trans, it could be the TC chain, but I would like to look at the front CV's and rule that out before i start with the TC.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2020, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmontana View Post
First off, thank you everyone. Truly appreciate everything here.

I bought car AS IS from a copart auction. My 4th purchase this year, 3 land cruisers and an lx470, all have arrived in working condition matching the description on the auction listing.

The X5 said "normal wear, runs & drives" When it arrived off the carrier, it did neither. The battery was too dead to start it it with the pack provided by the driver and I couldnt reach the trunk to swap one out. We got enough juice for lights and to put the trans in N.

So I rolled it off the truck, a big multi car hauler, in N, when I hit the brakes it didnt really do much of anything until I pulled the E brake. I'd say I hit the pavement pretty hard, wondering if that could have caused something to snap lose on the front axel.


Anyway, after swapping out the battery for my backup she started right up, I was pumped but it didn't move in gear, rolled in P, made that fine grinding noise going back into P from D that I described earlier.

Got it towed to my "mechanic" who is not great but, has been great when I need to drop off a company car for a master cylinder or brake pads, starter, etc. Lets me bring my own parts, very reasonable prices, etc.

Once we got it on the lift and hit the gas in D we all noticed a rattling noise from the front diff, sounded like a large bolt was being shaken around a metal box or something.

So I went to a yard nearby and got a front diff, it was clean, no gear wear, oil was still visable, it was clean and when I turn the part that bolts to the front drive shaft, the internals seemed to move nicely, everything felt good.

Also, when I spun the front wheels with the car on the lift, the other did not move. When I did this with the rear wheels, the other wheel spun in the opposite direction. When I spun the front pass wheel, the front driver wheel did not spin.

I wasn't there to check how this worked after he swapped the diff and when I got back it was on the ground and still no movement. But it felt like it was almost there, you could feel the car sort of kick or jerk or try and give you a little push when In D or R when previously the drive shaft was just spinning freely with that rattling noise from the front diff.

I was ready to go buy some after market front drive shaft assembly and just have him swap it out, I know its not the trans, it could be the TC chain, but I would like to look at the front CV's and rule that out before i start with the TC.
I would guess that one of the axle is not completely engaged with the splines in the differential. I would pull both axles off to check the splines. If it is the driver side axle ie the left side of the car, I have an oem driverside axle that I am selling for $40.00 plus shipping. Boots are not torn and splines are good.

Sounds like you are a flipper.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2020, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post
I would guess that one of the axle is not completely engaged with the splines in the differential. I would pull both axles off to check the splines. If it is the driver side axle ie the left side of the car, I have an oem driverside axle that I am selling for $40.00 plus shipping. Boots are not torn and splines are good.

Sounds like you are a flipper.
I will try and do this on jack stands myself if he gives me a hard time about going up on the lift. I wont have time to get around to it for a few days.

I am flipping/ semi restoring. Mostly Land Cruisers, Iv had them as my semi daily driver for a while. I sold my e36 in Feb, mostly because I can't fit my kids car seat in the back seat and it wasn't the safest car for an infant.

I have been telling myself, "don't buy a cheap x5" for years and years, but it just looked so good, so clean. The tail lights remind me of my e36, this X5 was the same color combo. I have no issues "roughing" it in a 95 land cruiser, I love it, but I do love the Bimmers, and I always get sucked in.

Thx for all the advice. Much appreciated.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2020, 11:33 PM
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PLS HELP 2001 3.0 Wont Move in D or R rolls in P

Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight View Post

I have an oem driverside axle that I am selling for $40.00 plus shipping. Boots are not torn and splines are good.

Sounds like you are a flipper.
Sold can I meet you tomorrow? Also id probably still be interested in the thrust arms (need bushings?) If you still have them.

I just put in a $425 order at fcpeuro for brakes and control arms and I forgot to order the outer CV joint which I destroyed by being an idiot.
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  #18  
Old 07-17-2020, 11:55 PM
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You don't even need to put on jack stands. Just lift from the center lift point.

Once both front wheels are off the ground turn one then the other and listen and feel for spline slip. It's a bit like an 80s car when you try to start and it's already started.

As mentioned above it's a little hard to tell which output is detached because the symptom is identical regardless which side is detached.

That said just because I've never seen it, doesn't mean CV isn't completely wallerrd out and the input side is spinning. That should be impossible to miss as the boot would have to tear or spin on the clamp. But; check for CV turning or trying to.

Also: when I changed wife's right side CV, I spent 90 minutes banging away trying to get it in to no avail. Finally took off the spring clip to test the splines mated (wrong part)? It shot right in.
I swapped the old spring clip and one hit of 4# BFH and it popped right in.

At least once or twice a year on xoutpost someone has this issue where a spring clip interferes with the CV axle seating in all the way and that is my bet in your case.

If I'm correct it will be very easy to pull the CV axle out and very hard to seat it without exchanging the clip.

Keep us posted. Very curious
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2020, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
You don't even need to put on jack stands. Just lift from the center lift point.

Once both front wheels are off the ground turn one then the other and listen and feel for spline slip. It's a bit like an 80s car when you try to start and it's already started.

As mentioned above it's a little hard to tell which output is detached because the symptom is identical regardless which side is detached.

That said just because I've never seen it, doesn't mean CV isn't completely wallerrd out and the input side is spinning. That should be impossible to miss as the boot would have to tear or spin on the clamp. But; check for CV turning or trying to.

Also: when I changed wife's right side CV, I spent 90 minutes banging away trying to get it in to no avail. Finally took off the spring clip to test the splines mated (wrong part)? It shot right in.
I swapped the old spring clip and one hit of 4# BFH and it popped right in.

At least once or twice a year on xoutpost someone has this issue where a spring clip interferes with the CV axle seating in all the way and that is my bet in your case.

If I'm correct it will be very easy to pull the CV axle out and very hard to seat it without exchanging the clip.

Keep us posted. Very curious


So I jacked up the front end and spun each wheel, only the wheel I was spinning moved, the opposite one didn't move. The axle shaft from the cv joint to the front diff also spun on each.

Whats my next move? Are the splines on the axle shaft seated in the front diff worn?
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  #20  
Old 07-23-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmontana View Post
So I jacked up the front end and spun each wheel, only the wheel I was spinning moved, the opposite one didn't move. The axle shaft from the cv joint to the front diff also spun on each.

Whats my next move? Are the splines on the axle shaft seated in the front diff worn?
Didn't you already replaced the front diff? Didn't you inspect the axle when you pulled the axle out of the old diff to put in the replacement diff?

If you did replace the old diff when you reinserted the axles back into the replacement diff did you feel or hear a click as the retainer snapped into place?
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Lotus Europa 1970 S2 Renault Powered
Lotus Type 52 1970 Twincam Webers Powered
PORSCHE 911 Targa 1982 The Garage Queen
Audi Avant donated to Kars for Kids
BMW 525IT Sold
Audi 4000CS Quattro Sold
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