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  #11  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aureliusmax View Post
B
can go watch scotty kilmer on youtube to find out why BMW's are some of the worse quality mechanically engineered cars for dependability .
I wouldn't trust Scotty kilmer to change the oil on my BMW, let alone give me his opinion on the quality of the vehicles.

But yes, try to avoid driving without the plate. The sky won't fall, you're wheels won't fall off. But it's good to have if you get into an accident I'm sure. I also fall into the reuse the bolts crowd, but under torque to avoid over stretching the bolts when reinstalling. Have done so at least 10 times, but Andrew did some testing and determined the stretch/failure point of older bolts. See the thread on those bolts for details. Interesting for sure.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:37 PM
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I always use new bolts and it costs me around $14 total for the complete set. I first buy them from FCPEURO and with their lifetime replacement warranty, I always get new ones when I turn in the old ones, and my only cost is shipping costs which is around $7 each way. Guaranteed replacement and no questions asked. Their prices may be a few dollars more than other online vendors but they're still way, way cheaper than the dealer, but given the lifetime warranty, it's a no-brainer to buy from them.
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:24 PM
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Scotty Kilmer... the guy who who built his career telling the world how horrible BMW's are... then proceeds to purchase a rebadged Z4... makes sense ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
I wouldn't trust Scotty kilmer to change the oil on my BMW, let alone give me his opinion on the quality of the vehicles.

But yes, try to avoid driving without the plate. The sky won't fall, you're wheels won't fall off. But it's good to have if you get into an accident I'm sure. I also fall into the reuse the bolts crowd, but under torque to avoid over stretching the bolts when reinstalling. Have done so at least 10 times, but Andrew did some testing and determined the stretch/failure point of older bolts. See the thread on those bolts for details. Interesting for sure.
Hi Crystal, where's Andrew's thread on the bolt stress test? How many pounds do you use re-tightening the old bolts?

I've reinstalled the plate a few times trying to find oil leaks and coolant leaks. The oil leak hopefully will stop after I replaced both valve cover gaskets.

The coolant leak is actually from the upper right side of the radiator. A plastic cover is seeping out coolant.

I squeezed a bunch of shoegoo into the crevices while the radiator was still hot.

Seems to do the trick. I haven't seen any oil or coolant leaks for the past 5 days.

Of course a new radiator is on the way. Just want to see how long the temp fix will last.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5only View Post
I always use new bolts and it costs me around $14 total for the complete set. I first buy them from FCPEURO and with their lifetime replacement warranty, I always get new ones when I turn in the old ones, and my only cost is shipping costs which is around $7 each way. Guaranteed replacement and no questions asked. Their prices may be a few dollars more than other online vendors but they're still way, way cheaper than the dealer, but given the lifetime warranty, it's a no-brainer to buy from them.
It can't be $14 for the complete set, which includes the flanged locking hex nut:
33306760587, and the hex bolt with washer: 31101096987.

The flanged nut is $1.75 each on ECS Tuning and the hex bolt is $19.17 EACH!
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2020, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
It can't be $14 for the complete set, which includes the flanged locking hex nut:
33306760587, and the hex bolt with washer: 31101096987.

The flanged nut is $1.75 each on ECS Tuning and the hex bolt is $19.17 EACH!
He bought them once from FCP. He utilizes their lifetime warranty to “warranty” the bolts every time he removes them. His cost ends up being shipping to send them back to FCP. Which I guess is around $14.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2020, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
It can't be $14 for the complete set, which includes the flanged locking hex nut:
33306760587, and the hex bolt with washer: 31101096987.

The flanged nut is $1.75 each on ECS Tuning and the hex bolt is $19.17 EACH!
You have to pony up the dough on your first order from FCP. After that, it's only $14 total. Their lifetime guarantee is legit but they have to be losing their asses on things like these bolts. My bet, if everyone on xoutpost and other forums were to do this, red flags would eventually trip and either the program would be discontinued or modified at some point. Just a guess though.

I do most of my part ordering from FCP. Used the lifetime guarantee a couple times and would like to see it continued. That said, x5only is smart for using the guarantee. I just remove my plate too often at 3-5 times a year.

Here's a link to the main thread on these with Andrew's testing. I don't remember the page though sorry.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lation-14.html
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles)


2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles)

2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles)
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2020, 02:09 AM
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Great thread. Thanks Crystal!
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2020, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
You have to pony up the dough on your first order from FCP. After that, it's only $14 total. Their lifetime guarantee is legit but they have to be losing their asses on things like these bolts. My bet, if everyone on xoutpost and other forums were to do this, red flags would eventually trip and either the program would be discontinued or modified at some point. Just a guess though.

I do most of my part ordering from FCP. Used the lifetime guarantee a couple times and would like to see it continued. That said, x5only is smart for using the guarantee. I just remove my plate too often at 3-5 times a year.

Here's a link to the main thread on these with Andrew's testing. I don't remember the page though sorry.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lation-14.html
Crystalworks, on the contrary, they're making a ton of money. They encourage utilizing their lifetime warranty on even stuff such as oil change, spark plugs, batteries, brakes, wiper blades and any liquid maintenance (trans, coolant etc) .. wear and tear stuff .

https://www.fcpeuro.com/page/lifetime-guarantee.

So, what is the sense of their business model? My friend, the strategy is volume, volume, volume sales!! Massive turnover! Suppliers love them because of their volume sales. Suppliers are queueing up at their door with generous discounts If there's anything that a business hates is getting stuck with stock. It's expensive. Think of Amazon ... the dough is in the volume of business.

I buy everything from them. They source BMW original items. If they don't have an item, I let them know and they always source it. Last month the high pressure fuel pump on my E92 broke after 4 years. I'd bought it from them. $595 original BMW OEM part. I bought a new one and turned over the broken one. It was surreal when I got my $595 back!
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Last edited by X5only; 09-09-2020 at 04:07 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2020, 06:04 AM
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Wife's plate is parked behind the garage. Has been for months.

Will not cause any catastrophic problem but the car jiggles like crazy without it in comparison.

Here's how I know: I used to own a convertible Z28 and my X5 feels rigid and firm like my Z28 with the top up. Hers feels wiggly and jiggly like the Z28 with the top down. Maybe I will take some g-force readings to demonstrate but the flex is maybe 3-5x as much it's quite noticable. If you can't feel it you aren't a performance driver. I feel the shake ripple though the car at every pothole. It took me a while to make the association but I think it was going over a railroad track when i felt the body twist and felt the rebound spring/giggle it felt exactly like the Z28 with the top down.

In addition the big risk is defomation in a crash. If wife's car hits something solid on one corner it's screwed. There is virtually nothing to keep the car from turning into a parallelagram. The "thin plate" can handle at least 50-70,000 pounds of shear strength and that is enough to keep the car rectangular in a minor crash.

Now: onto the bolts. If you reuse them and don't torque them you will not get the main point of the plate; stiffening the body. The bolts are designed to be torque to yield to achieve about 10,000# of clamping force per bolt. 60,000# total. If you just snug them you will get 500-2000# each or 3000-12000# total which is meaningless as a stiffening plate and will just be a skid plate.

I did destructive testing on a few bolts and they withstood the full torque to yield about three more times before internal failure and broke in half at 5-6 times. One guy suggested use 45° vs 90 to achieve a decent tightening force which seems reasonable but probably is half or less the design force dropping to 20-30,000#. Probably enough to improve the suspension handling but not enough to help in an accident.

A better option is to use bigger bolts. Upgrade to 12mm or 1/2" and normal torque (Unlimited reuse) will achieve the clamping force needed to achieve the design requirements and you can buy the bolts for [email protected]

Also there is nothing special about the bolts to make them so expensive save the captive washer and flareed head. The nuts are squashed to make them locking but you could do the same with a vice and new nuts as well.

If memory serves, they are M10-1.5 10.9 50mm length. If you can find 12.9 same size you can also achieve the 5T force without damaging the bolt and re-use then as often as you want.

So: now your are actually Informed. Use the new information as you wish and stop guessing. After at least 6-7000 miles my wife's car is not coming apart at the seams without the plate it's just wiggly and giggly. Re-use of the bolts can be done to some extent but after about 4 total applications they will fail to apply the design force and stop doing the job of the active part of the suspension.

I have driven the X5 with "snugged" bolts and did in fact notice: still jiggly and also noticed when I replaced and torqued the bolts that the plate had moved around under the bolts because they weren't tight. That awesome "feels like a sports car" feeling of tight suspension comes largely though the stiffening plate which does exactly as the name suggests.

Those are the facts. Other suggestions are mere unsubstantiated speculation. No the car won't self destruct without the plate, yes the bolts will self destruct after about 4-5 applications at factory torque specs. No the plate will not do its job with the bolts snugged tight.

I had my plate off for about a week and I couldn't stand the wiggles and had to put it back on. Wife not a performance driver and doesn't notice.
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