Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X5 (E53) Forum
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-12-2020, 08:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 46
alberniken is on a distinguished road
rusted inverse torx on ball joint

Trying to diagnose the infamous 'brake shimmy' which has recently gotten much worse on my 01 3.0.

Managed to get tension strut out to check bushing (visually looks fine) Found ball joint was very floppy, couldn't find slop in the socket by hand, but the spindle flops around easier than I think it should.

Tried to extract the joint, got one bolt loose with plenty of patient cussing, but found the second bolt is going to be a problem. It is pretty corroded and I cannot get the torx tight in the hole. If I try to twist, it rides back out.

From research here and elsewhere, I gather I have to pull the knuckle/bearing carrier?

Unless someone has a magic screw extractor. Not in a rush so I can soak it in pen-oil for a couple of days, while I seek a solution.

Pic of rusted torx
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 11-12-2020, 09:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 1,061
80stech is on a distinguished road
There is a good chance you will need to pull the knuckle anyway to get the ball joint out, takes a bit of time but a lot less swearing!
__________________
1988 325is (purchased new)
2004 X5 3.0 (new to me) 2005 X3 2.5 (new to wife)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-12-2020, 11:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 378
white46 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80stech View Post
There is a good chance you will need to pull the knuckle anyway to get the ball joint out, takes a bit of time but a lot less swearing!
and less blood....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 46
alberniken is on a distinguished road
bloody hell

Its not a Ken project unless I have made a blood sacrifice.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-13-2020, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 178
c-bass is on a distinguished road
One day when I was cursing at the car trying to get a torx bolt out I wondered, Why in the hell do these euro cars have these stupid torx fasteners?

So I read up about torx fasteners a little...do you know they have the balls to claim that torx has less tendencies to cam out???? BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA!!! LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's some tricks I've tried...

Use an impact gun. I found the impact will give you the best shot to try to shock it loose before it strips out. I put my weight on the tool to make sure it sits in there tight and then let er rip. The first time I notice it cam out that's a wrap.

I know you normally go the blood sacrifice route, but how about we try a socket sacrifice?

Try a slightly larger sacrificial torx bit and hammer it in there.

Try an allen bit and hammer it in there.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-13-2020, 10:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 990
Purplefade is on a distinguished road
rusted inverse torx on ball joint

Since you are replacing the ball joint anyway and wouldn’t care of the assembly gets hot, why not as you said spray her down with a half gallon of penetrating oil, let it soak and then apply as much heat as you’re comfortable with. I’ve found that if I can “expand” the metal around a frozen fastener ever so slightly.. that I have a much better chance of getting it broken free. Just a thought - and I wish you all the luck breaking that sucker loose so that you don’t have to tear the rest apart

Edit - I also like to take a hammer (if you can get it in there) to the head of the bolt to break some of the scale loose. You can hit the hot assembly as well and see how that goes.

Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-13-2020, 10:32 AM
andrewwynn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 6,639
andrewwynn is on a distinguished road
I have a full set of spline sockets which allows me to pick a smaller than supposed to size I can hammer on. Had a very similar issue replacing rear shock on a 328xi the shock mount rusted away and of course the two bolts holding it were a disaster.

I pounded on a socket made my own grooves Into the basically round fastener and got it out.

The hammering shocks through the entire fastener FYI it's a trick that works where fasteners have effectively glued themselves in. Example: cam shaft bolts: somehow install with 85 N·m takes 200 to remove unless you smack with a hammer first then more like 100.
__________________
E53 / M54 2001 3.0i gas LHD (pair of them: his & her)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-13-2020, 12:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,137
oldskewel is on a distinguished road
This reminded me of some weird stuff regarding the Torx on that job when I did it on my 2001 3.0i ...

The OE ball joints used Torx E12 (External) screws.

I replaced them with Lemfoerder ball joints, which came with Torx T45 screws. Switching from external to internal just seemed a little weird to me, so I remembered it and made notes.

So anyway, your photo shows an internal Torx. Torx come in weird sizes. For example, they jump from T30 to T40, skipping over T35. And then they also have a few weird ones thrown in there, like T27 and T47.

So if the one you have there is a T45 like my Lemfoerder, then a T47 might be a ready made candidate to jam in there for some extra tightness.

To get even tighter, you might take the T47 and grind the tip off a little. The Torx are tapered slightly, so if you grind off the tip, it can go in a little deeper, which will make it tighter. Being sharpened by the grinding will probably help too. Of course clear out anything inside the screw, but the photo looks pretty clean. I definitely agree on the hammering it in there to get it fully seated before trying to crack it free.

The other thing is that not all bits are equal, of course. If you are struggling with a medium quality bit, a high quality bit may be just a little harder and more precisely made, getting the job solved.
__________________
2001 X5 3.0i, 190k miles, AT, owned since 2014
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-13-2020, 12:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 178
c-bass is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
The other thing is that not all bits are equal, of course. If you are struggling with a medium quality bit, a high quality bit may be just a little harder and more precisely made, getting the job solved.
Always struggle with this decision when facing a sacrifice

Like why did they have to throw the MOST beautiful women to the volcano gods?? Couldn't be a solid 7??
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-13-2020, 01:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,137
oldskewel is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-bass View Post
Always struggle with this decision when facing a sacrifice

Like why did they have to throw the MOST beautiful women to the volcano gods?? Couldn't be a solid 7??


Or two 5's.

This scenario is always a challenging decision point. If you choose the easier way and it fails (e.g., strip the screw), you just bought yourself a much bigger problem. If you overkill it, it still might not work, and may not have been needed.
__________________
2001 X5 3.0i, 190k miles, AT, owned since 2014
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
ball, extract, joint, rust, torx

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:52 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.