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  #1  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:38 AM
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AWR-Fix: Remove Stuck Axle From Hub

Well it finally happened to me. About the tenth time I've had to remove an axle from a hub and it was completely fused together.

I've never needed more than 6 hits with a 4# hammer using a 1" bolt as a "pin" punch, but this was bad enough I was pretty sure the hub was about to be cut into pieces with an angle grinder.

After it wouldn't move with a few dozen blows with 3# hammer, I hooked up the 5# slide hammer (and held three 3# hammer on the slide for 8#), pounded with that for ten minutes or so: long enough that the slide hammer threads were toast; I had to cut the last half inch off and clean up the threads so at least that wasn't destroyed.

Fortunately I had a replacement axle so it didn't matter if I mushroomed the end as long as I didn't make it too big to fit though the hub (spoiler alert it was close).

I realized the inevitable I'll probably have to replace the hub so now I can just swing full tilt with 3#.

I heated up the hub with a propane torch and spend about 90 minutes "I've been working on the railroad" pounding away.

So that's the end once I did get it out, but that did not happen in hour one two or three. It didn't happen on day one either.

I had to go to Chicago to work so I borrow a car and go work for a day or two and on the way back it dawned on me, take one of the big steel plates from my bearing press and some M14 bolts and washers to hold it to the hub and push that sucker out with a 1" bolt and 1000 ft·lb impact.



So: three hours for the first 1" and 30 seconds or so to finish it up effortlessly with the giant bolt and M18 impact!

So; the question becomes how do I clean up the rust from inside the hub so it's remotely possible to install the new axle?

Answer: cut the end off the mushroomed old axle and make a tool to scrape the rust out.



Take a close look; there is a ring about 1/3" where the splines are original height; the rest I turned down about .002" with a bench grinder.



Pound that through a dozen times or so, turning 3-5 teeth over each time.



Eventually I could push through with my thumb.

I didn't take a picture but at the end I put a little bit of steel wool in with the spline just over about 4-5 teeth at a time working my way around.

When I was done, the hub will go all the way onto the axle with zero effort!

So: as it turned out that was a very good practice for round two:
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 01-24-2021 at 04:23 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:38 AM
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AWR-Fix: Remove Stuck Axle From Hub

Round two:

This one was the next bearing job and it was insane.

I was able to push the stubborn axle out with just three not specially hardened bolts with standard washers ; but I knew this other job was coming so planning ahead, I bought some 70mm 10.9 bolts and I cut the center out of old of my old brake rotors I just replaced.



Cast iron and 5 bolts, should work much better than 3 soft bolts and washers!

(True: very much did).

When the axle just gave me the finger when I hit with the 3# BFH (long handle version you can apply 15-25,000# impacts with this thing), I already had my plan.



The setup looks like this. The 1" bolt goes through a large plate to cover the hole in the rotor, 5 10.9 bolts hold the old rotor center to the hub, a magically sized 10" Milwaukee adjustable wrench that actually opens up to 1.5" fits between the "lug bolts" and a jack stand holds that from turning.

Since full impact could apply 70,000# or more and I knew if the axle is really stuck it could apply more force than cast iron could handle I tightened the bolt by hand estimated the torque to be about 300 ft·lb and the axial force calculated to about 20-22,000#.



Ouch! Slightly too much!

Glad I didn't have my brother at his machine shop turn that down.

Also glad that by some miracle my other rotor didn't get tossed into the recycling pickup the DAY before!

So: attempt two;.



I just kept the whole rotor for strength and used it backwards.

This time I torqued to about 350 ft·lb (estimated 28,000#) and nothing happened other than I started to mushroom the axle: make sure to leave the axle nut partly on at this point to help clean up threads if you need to use this level of force.

The axle still didn't start moving so since the "drift pin" aka 1" grade 8 bolt good for about 70,000# was already preloaded to 28, I figured smack that sucker with the BFH and add 10-15,000 more.

Well; 43,000 was enough; the damned thing started moving!

Three or four hits it moved enough the bolt was hand loose!

I re-tightened to the 28k and "rinse and repeat".

After about 4 repeats the force required dropped below 25,000 and I could just keep turning with my beautiful new ratchet breaker bar.

I pushed in until the axle nut landed then I had to remove the jig to remove the axle nut and then reassemble to continue.

For those with a keen eye will notice that the photos are no longer front of e53 but the process will be identical.

Since I don't want to have a 25# rotor as a tool I cut that down after to about twice the thickness of the one that shattered and I know how much torque to apply for preload without breaking the sucker so the improved rotor center plate;



I cut as close as I could with angle grinder to the brake surface but I just realized I probably could have cut from the inside and got it thicker. I'll probably do that the next time I do a brake job. Took maybe ten minutes and a 4AH battery did it on one charge.

How's this for serendipity?:

The plate that broke was spot in perfect for pushing the hub out of the bearing!

Initially to get it going I put the pieces in behind the rotor convex side out (the obvious way) and that worked great because it's a tight fit and kept them from tipping out of the way.

But per usual once you get the hub moving the plate just tips out of the way and tries to bend the bolts.

So: I loosened the bolts and put three plate pieces back in but convex side in! With the lip towards me!

This caught on the bolts and held them in while tightening!

That pulled the bearing race out of the outer bearing and then just a few smacks with the slide hammer and it popped right out!

You could create the same tool with hardware store stuff.

I bought two of the 8" long grade 8 1" bolts for like $10 and you could use some pipe flanges for the center push plate. The main trick here is using an old rotor as the main push plate because it's of course an exact fit to the hub.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 01-24-2021 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:22 AM
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Having faced the similar situation several times in the past, I went and bought the 12 ton hydraulic gear puller from Harbor Freight. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. Search YouTube and don’t get the smaller one. Not as sexy as your solution however.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:33 AM
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Being a novice to rusty cars, always reading up on these adventures to see what I have to look forward to

Any reason a standard hub remover (something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-7208a) won't work? Or is this one of those extreme rust situations?
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlem View Post
Having faced the similar situation several times in the past, I went and bought the 12 ton hydraulic gear puller from Harbor Freight. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. Search YouTube and don’t get the smaller one. Not as sexy as your solution however.

I've considered it but both the axle and the bearing took over 12T of force. Sometimes they are less and would have worked.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:15 AM
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AWR-Fix: Remove Stuck Axle From Hub

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuzilla View Post
Being a novice to rusty cars, always reading up on these adventures to see what I have to look forward to



Any reason a standard hub remover (something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-7208a) won't work? Or is this one of those extreme rust situations?


What I built is based on that concept however when I tried to use the fork from my slide hammer that is basically identical to the hub puller you asked about.

I bent the puller it's now curved almost would fit on a basketball. Inttord that before bringing in the big guns but also, 5/8 grade 8 bolt is good for 23,000#. I applied way way more force than thaf.

Case in point: the rental from my local auto parts place had a completely stripped bolt. Someone else had a similarly stuck axle.

Most often a hub puller will work. I've done about a dozen times now and only the last two needed more than a 3# hammer.

I've looked into the hydraulic ram but I wouldn't want less than 20T because I've calculated as high as 35,000# on some of the bearing press jobs.

FYI, there is a formula to turn torque and screw size into axial force that's how I calculate the estimated force.

Also from when I've turned 3/4" hardened bolts into cylinders rounding off the threads.
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Old 01-24-2021, 03:03 PM
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Very impressive job and nice write-up. Thanks.

I bet it was a good feeling when it finally started to move. Hopefully enough to make it all worth it.

And a PSA for people with torn CV joint boots ... in theory, and with no problems on removal, it may be easier to just replace the whole axle. But once in a while you run into something like this and unless you're AWR, you retreat and declare failure. So keeping options open, being prepared to just replace boots with the stuck end of the axle still in place, etc. can be a safer strategy if it would solve your problem.
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:42 PM
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I was planning to replace my outer joint already but I found a gently used whole axle from xo buddy. I also needed to replace bearing and after pounding on the axle so long I gave up expecting to keep the hub.

When I was done the hub was almost the right size for e70 What a hoot. If you wanted to there is a way to upsize permanently vs. using rings !

Fortunately brother works in a machine shop so $80-90 savings turning down existing hub.

Of course my *priceless" tool to remove every shred of rust. I'm thinking of having brother turn that down to nice and flat so I can put in a press and intentionally mushroom the splines a couple 10 thou bigger to really clean the hub out. Right now ive been pinching some steel wool through but if the spline was just slightly bigger it would work by itself.

One of the main reasons I made this thread was after recalling about 3 cases of fused axle that at least one solution was have a mechanic pull out the "fire wrench" (oxy acetylene torch) and cut it out, I realized that somebody could copy what I did with hardware store parts.

A 3/4" grade 8 bolt (likely three biggest you can find in a local store) is designed to hold 30,000 pounds without any plastic deformation. That should be enough to do the job especially since you can hammer on the end which takes stress off the bolt.

Lots of people will have an old rotor laying around and in a pinch you can use them rotor you just removed from the car, I would just advise doing a little torque math and evenly tighten the long bolts.

It wasn't a "cheap fix" really since local acquisition of 5 70mm class 10.9 bolts and washers was about $30 but those are permanent tools now I put them in the bearing press kit.
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
Very impressive job and nice write-up. Thanks.



I bet it was a good feeling when it finally started to move. Hopefully enough to make it all worth it.
You know it did!

Wasn't as exciting as the first bearing I did where after applying an estimated 35,000# nothing happened.

Only after also heating the knuckle to 240F=115c, it released the print up stress like a mini earthquakes and sounded like a pistol went off. I thought the knukle split in half!

Since I hit the bolt to get it to move that masked the "bang".

I realized "after the fact" I could have and still can use the (now broken) rotor center to spread out the forces and not need to carefully apply torque.

16240*5=81200# the rated clamping force of e53 lug nuts. The weak link is the rotor plate.

I'll maybe have my bro make me a copy out of steel plate so it'll flex vs shatter and 1" hole so I don't need to use bearing press plate. Put a 1.5" hex dent in the middle it'll even hold the nut from turning!

Of course if I build that I'll never need to use it again.

The tool I've been trying to invent is one that will push the hub out from the back so I don't have to use a slide hammer or destroy the dust cap pushing off with long bolts through the lug holes.

I've been using a slide hammer lately and it works but crap it takes a lot of hits some times. I've had a rear hub come off as little as 5-7 hits and have had a front hub take 30-40.

The Hybrid system was the best yet: pretension with the bolts through the lug holes then pop with the slide hammer. It took 3-5 strikes and not even full power.

I tightened the 2 bolts though the hub then slammed a couple slide hits, then I tightened the bolts and repeated a couple times. By third iteration the bearing balls all fell out.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:36 PM
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Andrew do you have any experience/opinions about those hub shocker tools?

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