Yet Another 3.0 Head Gasket Thread

[Effduration]

I tighten those E8 bolts by hand with a 1/4 inch ratchet and do it by feel.

Tight is right, any more and it's broken...

Those skinny E8 bolts will snap if you even look at them funny.

[andrewwynn]

I bought a new torque wrench specifically for my upcoming OFHG job nexuses lots of steel bolts into aluminum. 2-20 ft·lb range.

Last time I installed chain covers I had to use my over sized torque adapter which I can't set below 10 ft·lb but will register at about 5. Definitely not the precision I want.

It's well worth getting a proper tool vs. seat of pants when you can pick up basic torque wrench for $30-50 (I paid more to get a digital readout).

[Russianblue]

last night, i took everything apart and removed the vanos. i found that the bolt closest to the leak location WAS in fact torqued just fine. 10NM. I tightened it about 1/16 of a turn with an abundance of caution and then installed the two missing bolts.

i really hope this is fixable. the fact that the oil leakage is on the top side of the head gasket seems to be a bad sign.

of course i suppose any conclusion i make at this point is premature while missing two of the three bolts that screw into the timing cover. If those bolts are able to suck the timing cover up just a smidge, maybe that's all it will take.

I'm just wondering, before i put all this back together, if i shouldn't just remove the timing cover and go to town with the permatex. Even if i did that though, i don't think i could get to the leak spot on the TOP of the cyl head gasket. I'd have to bend the gasket down and blindly shove sealant in there.

this pic is from two weeks ago before i installed the head, double checking my timing chain routing.

The varnish marks are interesting though. Looks like oil has been pushing out a hair on that corner for a while, meaning that the seal is just a little weak at that spot.

i DID use permatex on the timing cover, but only on the far left and right corners and in the little seams where the cover meets the block. and i used VERY VERY little.

i have yet to see a picture of where sealant is supposed to go.
TIS says "Apply permanently elastic sealing compound Drei Bond 1209
(refer to BMW Parts Service) to joints to timing case cover"

to me, that means between the timing cover and the block. regardless, i don't think the leakage i am seeing would make sense if the timing cover joints weren't sealing properly.

question for you permatex experts. some of that stuff is on there GOOD. i mean, it's going to be VERY difficult to get off. does that all have to be re-done?

[andrewwynn]

If I had a tiny leak in the corner where the head and the timing cover and valve cover meet I would prep outside and use some JB Weld.I have used JB Weld to seal the high-pressure air-conditioning It will definitely hold back no pressure oil.

Location for pematex is any placep more than two surfaces meet also the half Moon back of valve cover.

[Russianblue]

In THIS car, i am definitely not above some JB Weld, lol!

so would you literally have added permatex to the TOP surface of the timing cover where it meets the cylinder head? at least in the jointed areas? i made it so it would squeeze out just a teenie tiny bit (if any) right there, solely to fill that gap between the cover and the front of the block. i can't get my arms around how much to use and exactly where.

problem is that ANY treatment of this space requires a LOT of work to get to.

that's why i am debating whether i should pull the timing cover NOW or gamble that installing the bolts that were supposed to be there in the first place ends up solving the problem.

it'd probably help to have a set of more experienced eyes on this.

[Effduration]

Well, the leak you describe is pretty rare right after a head gasket job. So I would wait and see what the two missing bolts do.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Russianblue

...
i have yet to see a picture of where sealant is supposed to go.
TIS says "Apply permanently elastic sealing compound Drei Bond 1209
(refer to BMW Parts Service) to joints to timing case cover"

to me, that means between the timing cover and the block. regardless, i don't think the leakage i am seeing would make sense if the timing cover joints weren't sealing properly....

I went and checked the Bentley, page 113-10 (I sent you a PDF of the scanned page a while ago), and for this the words are just a little different, which may clarify things:
"Apply elastic sealing compound 3-Bond 1209 to corner joints on cylinder block to timing chain cover"

The key clarification is the added word, "corner." Although, I'm not completely sure whether they mean the front two corners of the block, or the seam that has two corner edges meeting. But either way, the locations are the same.

That's exactly as I understand how things need to be done too. "Seam" might be a good word here too. The concept is that exactly at the seam, the top ~flat surface where the block and timing chain cover meet will not be a perfectly smooth surface. There will be a little corner where one is microscopically higher than the other, so the gasket pressing against it will leave a tiny opening, due to the very sharp corners involved. In general, sealing has problems with sharp corners. The other common example is the half-moon corners common in valve covers. For those, it's not the smooth arcs, it's the sharp corners at the ends that need a little extra help.

I asked my machine shop guy about what to use, and he said "anaerobic sealer." Googling on that is interesting, but I decided to just buy the Drei Bond 1209.

So, short answer: you only needed to put it at those two little seams on the corners of the block where there is a seam where it meets the timing chain cover.

I agree with the other advice:

• too hard to revisit those areas at this point based on what you know so far
• could be something else
• before getting back in there, if you conclude it is definitely the problem, do whatever it takes to get it sealed without opening it up again.

[andrewwynn]

When the word "corner" is used whenever there is a surface that makes a sharp turn.

The half Moon shapes go from flat into the moon it's a sharp corner.

In front the seal makes a 90° turn from under valve cover to front of block behind chain cover.

[Russianblue]

Did 150 miles on the interstate today. Probably 200 miles since Saturday when I finished up the alternator reinstall, Vanos and all the other bits.

Drove like a dream. If the timing cover is still leaking it's only the typical BMW 'aluminum sweat'. I'm convinced BMW aluminum sweats oil. Actually, i think it's quite likely my valve cover is warped causing a bit of sweat on the front left corner. i am tempted to get in there with a whole can of The Right Stuff and just go to town.

For the most part, the front engine gusher appears to have abated by 99%. Zero oil spots. I need to get under the under the car tonight to get a better eye on it though.

I'm currently investigating two issues I will report about shortly (1 oil leak, 1 noise) but this is mostly good news. in current form, i should be able to meet my goal of another 20-30k out of this car.

[andrewwynn]

Use some JB Weld over the minor leak.