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  #1  
Old 07-26-2021, 08:24 PM
LVP LVP is offline
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Chasing front end vibration after new front brakes. Solved? Slightly long rant...

Brought it in for oil change and front pads/rotors. Prior to this, slight vibration, but tolerable. The 20" Conti DWS tires are on year 7 and shot, so I knew I was just delaying the inevitable, but I was trying to get this season out of them.

Take it home and the front shudder is stupid from 105-135km/h. Talked to the shop and confirmed pads, rotors, oil change, tires on/off, that's it. I have the H&R hub centric spacers, but never any issues.

So, I try a local shop to balance the tires and they said tires too shot. Bit the bullet and tossed new Contis on. Same vibration.

I was north for the week, so I found a place with a road force balancer, calibrated the day before. Balanced, but no major improvement.

Back to the shop to see if anything else loose in the front (thinking a joint, steering joint (I've already done it once) or something).

Shop tried:
- Road test (yep, it vibrates like crap)
- All tires on the balancer. Minor variances, but no smoking gun. He didn't want to re-balance as his machine wasn't calibrated and I've sworn off his machine (I go to proper tire places for balancing).
- Spacers off (yep, still vibrates)
- He had his old 3.0 X5's winters, so he tried those, no spacers (yep, still vibrates)
- Figuring the last thing left was pads/rotors, tossed a new set on, different brand of each (you guessed it - still vibrates). This time though, the right side was cooking hot.
- Tossed on new/rebuilt calipers and vibration nearly gone. I need to get to a better balancing machine to get it back to near perfect again (well, as good as a 350,000km carcass can get ).

So, if you happen to run your pads/rotors to the full end of their life, the pistons are nearly all the way out for a while. Shoving them back in rusty, dirty calipers apparently causes some stickiness and inherent vibrations. First I've had this over my many years of car ownership, so sharing in the hopes it'll help someone else.

I technically could have deferred the $$ new tire set and several balancing attempts. Ugh.
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Daily Drivers:
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- 1998 328i, 370,000km

Track:
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Winter:
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2021, 10:55 PM
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Sticking calipers most likely. The X5's get pissy if you lube the pins and will stick.

Don't ask how I know...

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  #3  
Old 07-27-2021, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVP View Post
Brought it in for oil change and front pads/rotors. Prior to this, slight vibration, but tolerable. The 20" Conti DWS tires are on year 7 and shot, so I knew I was just delaying the inevitable, but I was trying to get this season out of them.

Take it home and the front shudder is stupid from 105-135km/h. Talked to the shop and confirmed pads, rotors, oil change, tires on/off, that's it. I have the H&R hub centric spacers, but never any issues.

So, I try a local shop to balance the tires and they said tires too shot. Bit the bullet and tossed new Contis on. Same vibration.

I was north for the week, so I found a place with a road force balancer, calibrated the day before. Balanced, but no major improvement.

Back to the shop to see if anything else loose in the front (thinking a joint, steering joint (I've already done it once) or something).

Shop tried:
- Road test (yep, it vibrates like crap)
- All tires on the balancer. Minor variances, but no smoking gun. He didn't want to re-balance as his machine wasn't calibrated and I've sworn off his machine (I go to proper tire places for balancing).
- Spacers off (yep, still vibrates)
- He had his old 3.0 X5's winters, so he tried those, no spacers (yep, still vibrates)
- Figuring the last thing left was pads/rotors, tossed a new set on, different brand of each (you guessed it - still vibrates). This time though, the right side was cooking hot.
- Tossed on new/rebuilt calipers and vibration nearly gone. I need to get to a better balancing machine to get it back to near perfect again (well, as good as a 350,000km carcass can get ).

So, if you happen to run your pads/rotors to the full end of their life, the pistons are nearly all the way out for a while. Shoving them back in rusty, dirty calipers apparently causes some stickiness and inherent vibrations. First I've had this over my many years of car ownership, so sharing in the hopes it'll help someone else.

I technically could have deferred the $$ new tire set and several balancing attempts. Ugh.
This is literally me yesterday.

I've been getting a very inconsistent wheel shake. Smooth as butter some times, slight vibration, wobble etc etc

long story short...

About 10km into a 500km round trip I start getting a REALLY noticeable wheel wobble to the point my whole arm was shaking. I make a right turn to pull off the main road and the wife says "smells like something is burning"

Hop out of the car do the ol' touch test and the passenger front rim is HOT.

In my case (and definitive proof I'm an idiot) I was changing the rotors and pads a few months ago, ran into some issues trying to retract the caliper piston, finally got it retracted to the point where I could install the new pads aaaaaand here we are a few months later.

I guess it's a good time to update the Black Bastard thread with more details for anyone that's interested.
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2021, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVP View Post
So, if you happen to run your pads/rotors to the full end of their life, the pistons are nearly all the way out for a while. Shoving them back in rusty, dirty calipers apparently causes some stickiness and inherent vibrations. First I've had this over my many years of car ownership, so sharing in the hopes it'll help someone else.
is it recommended to not run your pads past the warning lamp so the pistons don't get extended too far?

what you say makes has some merit I guess but if the rubber boot is not degraded, where does the "rusty, dirty" come into play re: the piston?

I'm not contradicting, just curious mostly. I too have had to replace a sticking caliper and have dealt with all manner of wheel wobble on all four Bimmers I've owned. It's one of the more annoying problems to have because it undermines directly one of the (if not THE single greatest) advantages of driving a BMW - the rock solid, plugged in, front end suspension, steering and and braking experience. I think they should call it "The Ultimate Driving Experience" ; )
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2021, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russianblue View Post
is it recommended to not run your pads past the warning lamp so the pistons don't get extended too far?

what you say makes has some merit I guess but if the rubber boot is not degraded, where does the "rusty, dirty" come into play re: the piston?

I'm not contradicting, just curious mostly. I too have had to replace a sticking caliper and have dealt with all manner of wheel wobble on all four Bimmers I've owned. It's one of the more annoying problems to have because it undermines directly one of the (if not THE single greatest) advantages of driving a BMW - the rock solid, plugged in, front end suspension, steering and and braking experience. I think they should call it "The Ultimate Driving Experience" ; )
The boot on the caliper that I removed it from was in good condition and seated properly.

I think what happens is the heating and cooling from the normal operation of your brake system creates condensation inside the rubber boot and over time forms enough rust that it causes issues with the piston fully retracting.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2021, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-bass View Post
The boot on the caliper that I removed it from was in good condition and seated properly.

I think what happens is the heating and cooling from the normal operation of your brake system creates condensation inside the rubber boot and over time forms enough rust that it causes issues with the piston fully retracting.
That is possible. I rebuilt a set of brakes and when I pulled them apart a couple of the pistons had pitting. That only comes from water, and the boots were not cracked, so the theory makes sense.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2021, 05:39 PM
LVP LVP is offline
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The calipers helped, but after exhaustive balancing there is still a vibration. Going to toss on my winters to rule out tires. If not the new tires, then it's a joint somewhere in the front, or the rack or the u-joint on the steering shaft (I replaced it about 170,000km ago). Fun.
__________________
Daily Drivers:
- 2008 535i, 290,000km
- 2004 X5 4.4, 01/2004 production, 380,000km
- 1998 328i, 370,000km

Track:
- 1996 328i, track/race car, ~300,000km

Winter:
- 2013 Ski-Doo MXZ X 800 E-TEC, trail can
- 2001 Ski-Doo MXZ 600 w/800 engine, exhaust
- 1978 Ski-Doo Olympique 340 (vintage race sled)
- 1977 Ski-Doo Olympique 340E

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