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  #1  
Old 08-03-2022, 01:41 AM
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Is it possible to insulate a sound system?

This is probably my last attempt before giving up.
I have tried everything you can think of to fix an alternator whine.

The only thought left is to created a separate system.

I don't need to worry about the headunit as I decided to go without it for simplicity.

So it's just an amp and 4 speakers. Either a Bluetooth amp or a regular amp with Bluetooth dongle.

The only thing that I need is to power/ground the system without coming in contact with the main system, to avoid alternator whine?

Is it possible or am I trying to come up with something that doesn't exist?
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2022, 11:48 AM
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I am also chasing an engine whine on my new install. Going to look at all my grounds and do some testing.

You can use different noise isolators and line conditioners that are designed for getting rid of noise in the system. But they are usually just bandaids and will affect the signal being sent to your speakers. The problem is almost always cable routing (or cheap unshielded cables), a ground somewhere not being good enough, or a ground missing altogether (engine, chassis, exhaust, etc) because it rotted away.

Attached is a doc that I will be working my way through at some point as time allows. Not my creation, was written by a pro audio competitor.
Attached Files
File Type: txt Audio Noise 10 Commandments.txt (10.7 KB, 36 views)
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2022, 01:48 PM
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I tried rca ground loop isolators and even Jensen transformers for $250 each. No luck.
I have 150 amp filter on the alternator. Have 50 amp filter on the power cable that feeds the amp.

Cable routing you mean rca cables?
In my case I removed the headunit completely to isolate the problem and connect to my amp via Bluetooth dongle.

As for the grounds, I don't totally understand how they work. All the manor grounds are there. If I'm missing a ground on my exhaust, can it cause interference in the sound system even if it's grounded to frame/body/engine?

My noise is there even without starting the vehicle.

I believe this is the document you've attached.
It's crazy how this article is over 33 years old, but still better than anytning you'll find on the internet today!

https://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?ID=121#9
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2022, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
I am also chasing an engine whine on my new install. Going to look at all my grounds and do some testing.

You can use different noise isolators and line conditioners that are designed for getting rid of noise in the system. But they are usually just bandaids and will affect the signal being sent to your speakers. The problem is almost always cable routing (or cheap unshielded cables), a ground somewhere not being good enough, or a ground missing altogether (engine, chassis, exhaust, etc) because it rotted away.

Attached is a doc that I will be working my way through at some point as time allows. Not my creation, was written by a pro audio competitor.

I fixed my issue finally. Let me know what problem you're having and what you tried so far.
I'm fairly confident I can fix any E53 sound problem at this point, after spending months chasing my issue.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2022, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwe5320023.0 View Post
I fixed my issue finally. Let me know what problem you're having and what you tried so far.
I'm fairly confident I can fix any E53 sound problem at this point, after spending months chasing my issue.
Trillion-dollar question is how you fixed it. I've been living with the noise but seems to happen only when blue-tooth connects to phone.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwe5320023.0 View Post
I fixed my issue finally. Let me know what problem you're having and what you tried so far.
I'm fairly confident I can fix any E53 sound problem at this point, after spending months chasing my issue.
Good to hear. I'll touch base when I can dig into it. Yeah that 30+ year old article is amazing. I copied it and added it to my library at some point.

I was going to say, if you have noise with the engine off it must be coming from something in the equipment. What ended up being the issue? Mine is only present when the charging system is active (engine running).
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles)


2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles)

2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles)
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2022, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5only View Post
Trillion-dollar question is how you fixed it. I've been living with the noise but seems to happen only when blue-tooth connects to phone.
My issue was so persistent, I decided to eliminate some pieces, even though they were definitely good and not causing any issues.
I had noise both with engine running - alternator whine, and with system completely off and car in sleep mode - static and buzzing.
When in sleep more, I simply activated the amp by giving it power, and I heard noise in speakers.

If I connected rca cables to the amp, I would have noise. I don't know why. No matter if the other end was connected to the amp or not. I tried different cables, and many of them, from 10-20$ amazon basics and monoprice to $100 blue jeans. Headunit and amp were grounded in the same location, so I don't know why I had noise.
I decided to remove rca cables and headunit.
So I have one amp powering 4 crossovers in each door, each has a tweeter and speaker.
Amp is powered from the battery with 0 gauge wires. But I'm sure 4 gauge is fine. I used OFC, avoid CCA. My friend who originally installed the system used CCA which may can contributed to the problem.
I did buy a new bosch alternator. I installed a newpar 150 amp alternator filter, to filter out any possible ripple.
Also changed spark plugs, spark plug boots and ignition coils, all with brand new oem parts, so I don't have to be wondering if low quality parts were bad or not.

The I also installed another 50amp filter right before my amplifier, to filter out any other interference that could possible come to the amp.

I used a $30 BT dongle and connected it to the amp via 4 rca to 3.5mm jack splitter. I then connected to the dongle via my phone. I powered the dongle from a cigarette lighter in the trunk for now, via USB cord provided. So far everything is working beautifully.
Sound it nice and clear, crisp and loud.
Even if I put the music on pause at full volume and put my ear next to the speaker, there's no noise, no whine, no static, no buzzing and I can rev the engine all I want.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Good to hear. I'll touch base when I can dig into it. Yeah that 30+ year old article is amazing. I copied it and added it to my library at some point.

I was going to say, if you have noise with the engine off it must be coming from something in the equipment. What ended up being the issue? Mine is only present when the charging system is active (engine running).

What is the noise, whine? Does it vary with rpm?

I suggest getting this filter. High quality, made in USA, will filter out interference from your alternator.

https://powerwerx.com/newmar-150a-al...e-noise-filter

In addition, I've put this filter right before my amplifier to filter any further interference possible.

Install Bay IBNF50 Noise Filter 50 AMP Each https://a.co/d/fdLqGqP

Then ground is huge. Run a wire from headunit to amp grounding locating. Are you grounding them on oem factory ground in the trunk?
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2022, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwe5320023.0 View Post
What is the noise, whine? Does it vary with rpm?

I suggest getting this filter. High quality, made in USA, will filter out interference from your alternator.

https://powerwerx.com/newmar-150a-al...e-noise-filter

In addition, I've put this filter right before my amplifier to filter any further interference possible.

Install Bay IBNF50 Noise Filter 50 AMP Each https://a.co/d/fdLqGqP

Then ground is huge. Run a wire from headunit to amp grounding locating. Are you grounding them on oem factory ground in the trunk?
Thanks for the tips. Will certainly look into them. Going to try to avoid filters as I went through the trouble going full active and DSP so want to leave the signal as untouched as possible.

I am using the factory ground in the back spare tire well. I am going to change the ground that comes from the FAKRA harness that runs up front to the Android unit and ground it with the rest of the gear too so it's all at the same spot and see if that helps. Going to replace my exhaust ground strap as well, because why not.

I am running an aftermarket alternator currently (180A REN unit) but had no noise with the factory DSP setup. Maybe that filter after the alternator would help. Will do more reading on that as well. Thanks again.
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2005 X5 4.4i Build 04/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, Pano, Sport (Purchased 06/14 w/ 109,000 miles) (Sold 8/15 w/121,000 miles)


2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles)

2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles)
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2022, 11:59 AM
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So there's different kind of filters. There's the ground loop isolator filters, connect inline with rca cables. They're garbage, don't use them. They will make you lose part of the music.
The filters are linked are different. They're filters for your power wires, so it doesn't affect your signal at all, just removes any possible AC ripple, as far as I understand.

Ground in one spot is definitely a must, non negotiable to avoid ground loops. Use at least 14 gauge wire I'd say for the headunit.

Let us know how it goes and if you need help! Maybe even record a video!
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