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  #21  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anerbe View Post
^ I agree 100%

Having warranty issues with both MB and BMW recently, there is no clear yes/no coverage when out of warranty. It's all a crapshoot (no pun intended )

Had problems with the MB, dealership declined coverage, called MBUSA, which called the dealership, and they couldn't work something out after 3 weeks of discussions. Thought I was SOL, then called the dealership again, and we finally worked out something, where the dealership called MBUSA to pretty much split the repair between the 3 parties involved. All documented on mbworld to talk it through, which always helps out by sharing experiences and tips with others.

Only way you can really have a foot to stand on is if you have ever discussed a previous issue with the dealership, and they've recorded it. Now I always go over my car with a fine-tooth comb, and any type of vibration/stumbling/error code/etc, I always bring it up, whether it can be fixed at the moment or not. If the car changes characteristics in any way, something is different or off. The part in question could ultimately fail years down the road, but you had an inclination on the issue way before, which will definitely help in a discussion post-warranty.

Good luck!

If I had to predict the future, if you have brought up any odd idling/engine vibration/cold start stumbling in the past, you'll probably pay 50% of the repair from the dealer if you purchased the car originally from there.
I have brought it in for these symptoms before. They said it was faulty crank case vent valves and were replaced (on my dime). Due to the brutual weather we are having here in the northeast, I am going to take the car in asap as they should be able to replicate the problem easily.

Thanks for your input. Good luck with you as well!
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:20 AM
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did you bring up any of these symptoms when you were under warranty?
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:27 AM
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the valves were replaced after my warranty expired. but i need to go back through my service records and see if I had ever brought it up during my first 50K.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS_4.8 View Post
I wasnt asking him to predict the future.

I meant it more as a general question........If you are out of warranty, does the dealer have to honor and perform a SIB at no charge, similar to how they would on a recall.

I see now there is no black or white answer on this, so I am just gonna have to give it a shot
i find it comical to hear people come to the dealer with a SIB in their hand, and they are out of warranty, and demand the repair be performed for free. a SIB is not a recall, SIBs are released to assist technicians in diagnosis. Recalls are not used for diagnosis.

The recall outlines what a potential failure could be, and how to prevent the failure by installing or repairing the component, if the failure has already occured, the component is replaced with an updated part, or repair kit is added to the part.

The SIBs outline what has failed. by symptom, or fault codes, or installation of incorrect accessories, and if the repair is covered under the factory, cpo or esc warranties. Or if the situation is Customer Pay. SIBs also contain information regarding production changes, percieved operation of functions, training, videos, brochures, service requirements, and special tool releases.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:59 PM
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SIB's are nice, but sometimes (like in my case), the techs may use the SIB wording to the T - they will not investigate anything outside of the written dates, codes, etc... and not just look at the symptoms and diagnosis. oh well. all I know is that I will not pay multiple deductables for mis-replaced parts on the same problem. i'll only do it once.
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  #26  
Old 01-05-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by killcrap View Post
i find it comical to hear people come to the dealer with a SIB in their hand, and they are out of warranty, and demand the repair be performed for free. a SIB is not a recall, SIBs are released to assist technicians in diagnosis. Recalls are not used for diagnosis.

The recall outlines what a potential failure could be, and how to prevent the failure by installing or repairing the component, if the failure has already occured, the component is replaced with an updated part, or repair kit is added to the part.

The SIBs outline what has failed. by symptom, or fault codes, or installation of incorrect accessories, and if the repair is covered under the factory, cpo or esc warranties. Or if the situation is Customer Pay. SIBs also contain information regarding production changes, percieved operation of functions, training, videos, brochures, service requirements, and special tool releases.
I hope this is not aimed at me. I didnt say I am going to go in there and demand them to fix it out of warranty. What I will do is take advantage of my relationship with them and see if they are willing to work with me on it, if it happens that this is truly the issue and the SIB helps them to diagnose the problem.

You obviously work or have worked for a dealership. I have not. Thats why I come here to ask questions and learn from others.

Thanks for outlining the difference between a SIB and recall.
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2010, 05:22 PM
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Hey, wow, I totally know this issue sucks.

This is something BMW should fix for every owner as it truely is a defect.

As Mike has said, my main complaint was the car idle rough in the AM (or whenever it was a cold start and it was less than 50F outside) and stalling.

I was very fortunate to have a friend at the dealer who was able to get the service manager to open a case with BMW NA to fix my issue even though I was not the original owner and the car was about 1 month outside the warranty. However, the VIN and PN's on the levers did match up with the bulletins listed so my car was a prime candidate for the flix.

Even tho BMW should fix this for everyone, I feel that if you have a good relationship with your service writer or the salesperson who sold you your car, you can use that route to get BMW NA to open a PUMA case for you. I wouldn't go in there barnstorming the place and demanding a free fix. Its probably best to play nice and see how much they can help you. They do know its a known issue.

Also, there is a way to get the car to fail the diagnostic tests. Maybe killcrap may know and share that info. My friend who is a tech told me my car passed the tests 2x even though we all knew it should have failed. Then he was told to perform the test a different way and surely enough it failed and that got the ball rolling. It has to fail the diagnostic for it to qualify for the lever fix.
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  #28  
Old 01-05-2010, 06:21 PM
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thanks for your insight ^. My problem is that they will not even run diagnostic on the vehicle for this issue, as the fault codes don't match the SIB. I told them the symptoms match, and they state that my car is outside of the SIB production timeframe.

Quick question - did your car have any wierd idle characteristics when warm/operating temp, such as vibration or RPM variation before the fix, and no idle issues after the lever fix? I want to make sure to add this to the symptoms list and a possible fix would be the levers.

The car is still CPO for a while, and I'm not too worried that this will never get fixed. It's more like how long will it take. The car has the errors, the dealership witnessed first hand on the idle issues, and now whatever they do to fix it is fine with me. If the DME replacement works for some magical reason, cool! I'm not into the lever fix because I prefer it (who would want to, as there's lots that can go wrong opening up the top end of the engine), but I see it more like the fastest way for me to not be embarrassed to start the car in the morning.

Good luck to all with the issue!
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2010, 07:06 PM
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If I were you, I would offer to pay for the diagnostic. Its only like $150 and BMW would cover that if they find that it is the indeed the levers that is causing your issue.

I fully experienced all the symptoms of the out of tolerance levers. I had the rolling idle at starting, the drop in rpms as it warms up, the occasional stalling as it dropped from high rpm warmup to normal idle, etc. You name it, I had it.

According to my friend, he said my issue was not that bad compared to other cars he's seen. The worst was an 04 545i that almost always stalled. Mine only stalled 2x in the short time I had owned it (at that pt).

As of right now, there are no idling issues and the car actually feels STRONGER than it did before. The throttle response is great and the TORQUE, yeah, that kicks ass! The 4.8is honestly feels faster on take off vs. my M5. Sometimes I will drive my wife's car for kicks and it feels so STRONG compared to my M5. But then again, I'm sure it has no chance after the M5 gets into its 5-8k powerband in the 500hp M Mode.
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  #30  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:43 PM
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^ if i was out of warranty, I would. However, the car is covered. I guess they'll keep playing around until it's fixed.

Thanks for the symptoms. If I can find out the "special" diagnostic, that would be great for myself and the others still having this problem.
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