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  #21  
Old 11-17-2010, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04_4.8isX5 View Post
Diennard that is what I was thinking in regards to creating more of a win win win. And heck I wouldn't expect them to eat the entire cost but they weren't even considering any portion or assistance at all. Damn economy, its even making the large and very profitable companies like BMW get stingy! I just don't think they are at all thinking about "long term" affects of this situation and I'm just one person right? How very funny, I'm their target customer-mid thirties, college graduate, financially secure and so far successful lol, yet I've been supporting their brand for so many years in an area of the US where the Dodge, Chevy, Ford trucks are apparently gods. I have supported the BMW brand and gotten so much crap for so long for it. Anywho I'm rambling, this definitely is a lose lose situation. BMW loses a long time loyal customer, my friends, family members, and aquaintences, and I lose a lot more money in this vehicle, and my interest in ever owning another BMW again. These will be being sold. I believe very strongly in customer service, even when sometimes a product costs a little more, if a brand provides better customer service than another with a similar but cheaper product, I will and would choose the better customer service providing brand.

Naz thanks for the tip also about my front headlights, I've actually used that 3M kit on my 540i headlights and I can agree that it works great! The picture was taken using my blackberry so its not the best quality, the X headlights are actually clear and gorgeous, in fact they make me drool when I see the X with the angel eyes and HID's on!

Thanks again X fans
Too bad it didn't work out to your satisfaction this time, come see us from time to time.

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  #22  
Old 11-17-2010, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
its ridiculous how customer service works huh? i think BMW is in "conserve mode" especially with all those fuel pumps failing in the 35 turbo engines.
Trust me, BMW CS Sucks a big one. They sent their "master tech" and couldn't figure out what the tech in Maine found in 10 minutes with a State Inspection.

I'd ask around, especially if you're in the BMWCCA. The dumbass local dealer here outsources everything to a transmission shop and just marks them up, hopefully you can find a shop that knows what they're doing for a fraction of the price.
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2010, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dlennard View Post
Sorry I guess I misread your post . The dealer should be interested in helping him because they are a BMW dealer. I don't think the dealers ever pay out of their own pockets they get approval from BMW NA. The dealer loses a new customer and BMW loses more car sales and the X5 owner gets his trans fixed by an INDY and sells the X and other BMWs. The x5 owner also tells all his friends not to buy BMW and nobody wins.

If BMW NA split the cost they would still have a customer to buy their products, the dealer would make money on the work and get a new customer and the owner would feel like he was treated right. WIN, WIN, WIN for everyone. I can dream can't I?


I understand what you are saying, but that just isn't how it works. I have been on the dealer side, and the distributor side (not with BMW products) and it usually worked more like this:
  • Dealer makes a case that a customer requires support. If the dealer isn't asking, and pushing the case, the distributor is unlikely to do anything. They depend on the dealer to filter out all the requests. They can't fix every broken car out there. This is related to why people rarely feel that calling BMW directly, and bypassing the dealer, helped them in the end.
  • Distributor and dealer evaluate the customer and what it is worth to keep that customer. It sounds very harsh, since the OP is (was) a loyal BMW fan, but it doesn't sound like he bought his vehicles new. So, he hasn't been directly supporting the dealer or distributor, (aside from the parts purchases, and this failure isn't related to the parts purchases). The customer history is important here. Has he bought four or five new vehicles from the dealer? Did he buy the used vehicle there? Did he buy extended warranty? Those transactions all had profit that a policy settlement could be offset against.
  • Distributor asks the dealer what he is contributing. It isn't all on the distributor, they will look for the dealer to contribute to demonstrate that the dealer feels strongly about it. If the dealer isn't willing to throw some money in, why would the distributor?
  • They will come up with some split of dealer/customer/distributor. If the customer accepts that, great. If he doesn't, they will pull it off the table, since there is no reason to pay anything if they aren't making the customer happy. Better to save their money. Any offer they make will be based on retail. Their internal split between the dealer and distributor, on the other hand, will be based on cost. The additional challenge in this particular case is that their cost is more than a third party overhaul. It makes no sense for the OP to take that kind of offer, if he can get it fixed cheaper elsewhere.
  • Any settlement offer made has a risk for the dealer, the risk that they customer won't actually buy any more from them, thus proving that their offer was a waste (to them). That is why they may make an offer more in the nature of a discount on a future new purchase, instead of one that is more of a hope and wish that the customer buys a new vehicle. This would play out as a new vehicle purchase, with the current broken vehicle being a trade. It doesn't sound like the OP would be happy with such an offer, but you never know.
As an aside, we need to remember that nothing is free. If BMW starts fixing all their out of warranty vehicles, vehicles that they have no obligation to fix and which they will not have put money aside for, the costs go one place: they are added to the price of new vehicles. We all pay in that case, if we are repeat purchasers. It sounds really harsh, and I don't want to be mean, but I hope that BMW does not fix all the second hand vehicles out there, because it will mean that it is harder for me to afford a new BMW. There is no magic pot of money.

The above may be helpful to people who find themselves in the position of looking to a dealer for out-of-warranty policy or support. It can help to understand the motivations, and the system.
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Last edited by JCL; 11-17-2010 at 02:08 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-17-2010, 10:04 AM
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Wow, JCL, that was a very well written statement. AND, it's exactly the reason that I didn't ask the dealership to do anything about the transfer case issue on my own recent purchase even though I actually purchased my X5 from a dealership.

There just wouldn't be a point to try and push them to cover half of the cost of what it would be for them to replace it, when I got my local transmission shop to rebuilt it for less than what the dealer's discounted price would have been.

$3,500 minus a 50% discount to install a BMW remanufactured transfer case is still more than the $1,475 that I spent at full price somewhere else.
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  #25  
Old 11-17-2010, 10:38 AM
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This is pure business logic, makes perfect sense. If the customer didn't buy it from them or another dealer, nor does service through them what motivation do they have to lose money if they are at or near capacity for service volume now? Especially given the dealer is in an economically un-friendly area towards imports, they might be just surviving and can't afford to give breaks.

They are much more likely to view their prime customers/prospects as ones that don't just drive the brand but that actually buy from them and service with them.

JCL, I think you got it right on the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I understand what you are saying, but that just isn't how it works. I have been on the dealer side, and the distributor side (not with BMW products) and it usually worked more like this:
  • Dealer makes a case that a customer requires support. If the dealer isn't asking, and pushing the case, the distributor is unlikely to do anything. They depend on the dealer to filter out all the requests. They can't fix every broken car out there. This is related to why people rarely feel that calling BMW directly, and bypassing the dealer, helped them in the end.
  • Distributor and dealer evaluate the customer and what it is worth to keep that customer. It sounds very harsh, since the OP is (was) a loyal BMW fan, but it doesn't sound like he bought his vehicles new. So, he hasn't been directly supporting the dealer or distributor, (aside from the parts purchases, and this failure isn't related to the parts purchases). The customer history is important here. Has he bought four or five new vehicles from the dealer? Did he buy the used vehicle there? Did he buy extended warranty? Those transactions all had profit that a policy settlement could be offset against.
  • Distributor asks the dealer what he is contributing. It isn't all on the distributor, they will look for the dealer to contribute to demonstrate that the dealer feels strongly about it. If the dealer isn't willing to throw some money in, why would the distributor?
  • They will come up with some split of dealer/customer/distributor. If the customer accepts that, great. If he doesn't, they will pull it off the table, since there is no reason to pay anything if they aren't making the customer happy. Better to save their money. Any offer they make will be based on retail. Their internal split between the dealer and distributor, on the other hand, will be based on cost. The additional challenge in this particular case is that their cost is more than a third party overhaul. It makes no sense for the OP to take that kind of offer, if he can get it fixed cheaper elsewhere.
  • Any settlement offer made has a risk for the dealer, the risk that they customer won't actually buy any more from them, thus proving that their offer was a waste (to them). That is why they may make an offer more in the nature of a discount on a future new purchase, instead of one that is more of a hope and wish that the customer buys a new vehicle. This would play out as a new vehicle purchase, with the current broken vehicle being a trade. It doesn't sound like the OP would be happy with such an offer, but you never know.
As an aside, we need to remember that nothing is free. If BMW starts fixing all their out of warranty vehicles, vehicles that they have no obligation to fix and which they will not have put money aside for, the costs go one place: they are added to the price of new vehicles. We all pay in that case, if we are repeat purchasers. It sounds really harsh, and I don't want to be mean, but I hope that BMW does not fix all the second hand vehicles out there, because it will mean that it is harder for me to afford a new BMW. There is no magic pot of money.

The above may be helpful to people who find themselves in the position of looking to a dealer for out-of-warranty policy or support. It can help to understand the motivations, and the system.
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2010, 10:56 AM
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Per usual, very well written post JCL.

I do feel the OP's pain, because a failing trans on a car under 50,000 miles just flat out sucks. You would think BMW quality was better than that. I am the same type of BMW owner as the OP. Owned two e30's, an e36 and an e53. All of which were used at the time of purchase and none of which were from a BMW dealer. I have also spent tens of thousands of dollars in parts and repairs on my BMW's. Some parts from dealers, some not. Some repairs at dealers, some not. I feel I am strongly supporting BMW's secondary market. However, I am not pumping money into new vehicles from authorized dealers. Therefore, I would never expect BMW compensate me for anything outside of warranty. Even though I feel as though I am valuable asset to BMW in many ways; I currently own 2 BMW's, my next car will be a pre-owned BMW, my family owns 5 other BMW's (pre-owned), I am in the BMWCCA, I participate in BMW forums and I converted a friend from an MB guy to a BMW guy (he actually bought a new Z4M), I don't expect BMW to do anything for me outside of warranty because I am not directly supporting them through purchasing new cars (which is what they are in business to do) and I don't have an exclusive, long term term relationship with any particular dealer or service advisor.
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  #27  
Old 11-17-2010, 11:07 AM
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Yea it sucks a $70,000 truck needing a new tranny under 50K miles. Given the fact these tranny's are notoriously bad I would have hoped BMW NA at least giving some sort of a break. Should be lesson learned to the OP- if buying a used AUTO tranny BMW get CPO at the minimum.
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  #28  
Old 11-17-2010, 02:41 PM
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what is the dreaded lurch.. thought the slam was normal more or less.. jsut sayin
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  #29  
Old 11-17-2010, 02:54 PM
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I can't speak for everyone's issues. But the lurch that I was referring to sounds like the same issue your having or calling the slam. When your X5 is driving and going through gears it'll pause to change a gear while the engine is still revving and then suddenly change gears and slam or lurch into the next gear. It isn't right or Ok at all, it may be a normal symptom or problem with these awesome vehicles but either way its not normal. In my case the transmission is losing hydraulic pressure in valves or somewhere thts used to change the gears, so when it trys to change them it loses pressure and has difficulty engaging the next gear. Its very odd though because its inconsistent, and it won't do it when its in sport mode. Atleast I haven't experienced it yet. The stealership told me that this is a very gradual and slow death or process for the tranny, but either way it is bad. Hope that helps and makes sense. Another symptom mine was having lately was a slow response when kicking it into reverse, it would take about a minute to engage. I've read several experiences where these symptoms were software related but apparently not in my case . I will be seeking more opinions, its just difficult to find a shop around my vicinity that will be honest and look at bmw's.
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  #30  
Old 11-17-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04_4.8isX5 View Post
I can't speak for everyone's issues. But the lurch that I was referring to sounds like the same issue your having or calling the slam. When your X5 is driving and going through gears it'll pause to change a gear while the engine is still revving and then suddenly change gears and slam or lurch into the next gear. It isn't right or Ok at all, it may be a normal symptom or problem with these awesome vehicles but either way its not normal. In my case the transmission is losing hydraulic pressure in valves or somewhere thts used to change the gears, so when it trys to change them it loses pressure and has difficulty engaging the next gear. Its very odd though because its inconsistent, and it won't do it when its in sport mode. Atleast I haven't experienced it yet. The stealership told me that this is a very gradual and slow death or process for the tranny, but either way it is bad. Hope that helps and makes sense. Another symptom mine was having lately was a slow response when kicking it into reverse, it would take about a minute to engage. I've read several experiences where these symptoms were software related but apparently not in my case . I will be seeking more opinions, its just difficult to find a shop around my vicinity that will be honest and look at bmw's.

i had the reverse problem actually. not a full minute to engage, but about 2-3 seconds to engage in reverse. replaced under my last month of CPO warranty! phew!
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