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  #21  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:08 PM
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SkidmarkX5,

I was going to replace my trans filter and oil this weekend. 115,000 on my 2002 4.4 and not a problem, maybe I should just wait and do the rebuild when the time comes. Don't want to temp fate.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:11 PM
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Civdiv99,

Great post, I'm up for it but I can wait until the time comes. I love this kind of stuff, good job.
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2011, 12:46 AM
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If it Aint Broke...

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5Matador View Post
SkidmarkX5,

I was going to replace my trans filter and oil this weekend. 115,000 on my 2002 4.4 and not a problem, maybe I should just wait and do the rebuild when the time comes. Don't want to temp fate.
If your trans is working fine on the original fluid, my recomendation is: Just leave well enuf alone. I changed my fluid & filter and even the new filter gromet at 122K. Trans went South from that moment on. By 132K it was limping home in 3rd gear cuz 5th & 4th were gone. Never have I changed out old fluid and installed new fluid & filter and had it fail immediatly thereafter.
No question the correct components used & procedure by the book. No matter. These ZF trannys are very atypical.

I hooked up with "civdiv". He has his poop in a scoop on the how-to.

In fact I am ordering my rebuild kit & Shop Manual this Friday. Going to be one of my Spring projects. (as that ol' redneck saying goes, " I always wanted to fix me a Transmission!").
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2011, 05:40 AM
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Congratulations on your excellent write-up civdiv99.

I’ve rebuilt around a dozen Range Rover 5HP24s in the past few months which had exactly this same “bearing then O-ring” failure http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/189983-ZF-5HP24-teardown and it looks as though it will become a common problem on the 4.4i & 4.6is E53 too as their mileages rack up.

The axial needle roller bearing which wears & fails only sees a combination of load and relative speed in gears 1, 2 & 3 so I suspect it will be vehicles that have worked hard in these gears throughout the vehicle’s lifetime which will suffer this particular failure (towing, ‘sporty’ driving, hilly terrain, etc.). Vehicles that spend their lives predominantly cruising up and down the motorway are likely to be safe from this particular failure.

Please forgive me if I missed it, but reading through your excellent posts I notice that you didn’t make specific reference to the condition of the O-ring which seals the input shaft to the B-clutch drum so I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s the failure of this O-ring which allows the A-clutch pressure to bleed to tank (& therefore drive is lost in gears 1 to 4) and that the O-ring fails because the axial bearing wear allows the input shaft and B-clutch drum to separate under load (as you stated). Perhaps you could confirm that this O-ring had failed in your case?





It’s easy to identify if a 5HP24 has this specific problem when it’s sat on a bench, even before stripping it, by grabbing the input shaft and trying to move it axially. The correct endfloat is 0.2 to 0.4mm. If the axial bearing has worn/failed you will be able to move the shaft by 1-2 mm.

Phil

P.S. Regarding the ‘fancy jig’ for setting up the clutch plate clearances, I simply use a 20.4kg weight (i.e. 200N) to preload the wavy plate which has a radial slot cut in it to allow the thickness measurements to be taken

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  #25  
Old 04-19-2011, 11:20 AM
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Mine was showing problems before it went south. But it seems the slipping comes shortly after changing the fluid, I think most of these cases the transmission is already nearing failure and the fluid change pushses it over the edge

I am going at it an hour a day to retain my sanity, undid the exhaust last night after repeatedly spraying the bolts on Sunday. Tonight comes taking it down and removing the swaybar. Also hoping to remove the fr. drive shaft and disconnect the rear one. Might take some pics as I go along but most of this is doucmented. Perhaps the actual disassembly is not documented that well and I might post some pics in a separate thread of the D/A and re-assembly.

RRPhil, Thanks for that heads-up. Any idea if the Torque-converter is also prone to failure or should I replace as a precaution?
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  #26  
Old 04-19-2011, 05:21 PM
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Unlike the torque converter in the GM 5L40-E ‘box (3.0l M57 engine) the unit in the 5HP24 doesn’t have a particular reputation for failure. Having said that, you do occasionally see posts from owners with driveline vibration issues around 1500rpm which result from a lock-up clutch fault when it’s operating in its ‘continuous slip’ mode.

I always get my torque converters re-manufactured anyway because I often don’t know the history of the transmission I’m rebuilding - or even what fluid is in it. At around 200GBP I think it’s worth it (compared with the hassle of replacing it at a later date) – especially as the last thing you want to do is to recontaminate your new transmission fluid following the rebuild (it’s impossible to get all the old fluid out of the torque converter without unwelding it). The places I use turn the converter around in two days i.e. they re-manufacture your own unit and return it to you.

I would strongly recommend that you get your torque converter re-manufactured while it’s out of the vehicle. I believe that Transtar, Beltsville Transtar Industries, Inc. - Torque Converters are the ‘official’ ZF car transmission part distributors for Maryland, so it may be worth getting a quote from them?

Phil
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  #27  
Old 04-20-2011, 04:33 AM
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Phil - you have an awesome amount of knowledge, thanks for sharing with us !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRPhil View Post
Having said that, you do occasionally see posts from owners with driveline vibration issues around 1500rpm which result from a lock-up clutch fault when it’s operating in its ‘continuous slip’ mode.
I have exactly that problem. Not all the time though. It seems to happen most often when accelerating gently up a slight incline at just the right speed. There's one particular roundabout on a hill on my route home from work that often triggers it. I assume the only fix is a new / recon converter ?

I can't afford to get the 'box rebuilt right now, and obviously the labour to change just the torque converter is high enough that it seems silly to do that and not look at the 'box at the same time. I'll have to put up with the judder for now.

In your experience, is this fault normally accompanied by another fault in the gearbox ? My gearbox seems to work OK <touch wood> at the moment.
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  #28  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:06 AM
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In my experience it’s most likely to be an issue with the hardware inside the converter itself and much less likely to be related to the hydraulic control system that feeds it from within the main transmission. For info., as you’re in the UK, I use either of these places for my converter re-manufacturing :

http://www.jpat.co.uk/torque_converter_reman.html

http://www.sussexautos.co.uk/torque-converters.php


Incidentally, if anyone here in the UK has an ’01-‘03MY 4.6is E53 with a poorly 5HP24 transmission, and can get it out of the vehicle, I’d be happy to repair your transmission for free (you just pay for the parts & shipping – typically totals around £800 including a re-manufactured torque converter and 11 litres of LT71141) as I’ve never yet had the opportunity to rebuild an ‘034’ model of the 5HP24 – the daddy of them all. There are 27 different variants of the 5HP24 in total, by the way - fascinating!

Phil
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  #29  
Old 04-20-2011, 08:45 PM
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Ok, the exhaust and heat shields are off. The sway is disconnected but I can't slide it out, what am I missing, anyone done this?

Second problem, there is an electrical plug just in front of the AT oil pan and I don't see how I can disconnect it? Please give me hint or a pic how it parts.

Third, I took the bolts out of the front flex disk. Yet I can't get the drive shaft out, what keeps it in place, or can it only come out when the TC is removed?

Last question, I presume the oil lines have to be disconnected completed both at the cooler and the AT?
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:52 PM
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Thanks, civdiv, for the very helpful story. (I'm not sure I could see myself driving up wood ramps to perch on wood pilings, but really nice to see that such a frontiersman approach works!)

Can you share the source for your rebuild kit and trans bearing? (Or suggest a definitive Google search string?)
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