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  #31  
Old 08-18-2015, 05:54 AM
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Sorry to bring this post back up again but I've got identical issues and I'm contemplating fitting an external transmission cooler. What I'm wondering though is has anyone changed the standard one before doing this?

My story goes like this...

I bought my X5 4.6is around 3 months ago on 99k. I got it back from picking it up and immediately clocked onto the harsh 2-1 downshift.

I scanned the gearbox for codes and it came up with the ‘too much slip’ code. Car went back under warranty to have the torque convertor replaced and the gearbox oil and filter changed.

I got it back but was still getting the harsh downshifts. I scanned it again but nothing came up.

I got under the car and had a look and could see the gearbox sump hadn’t been disturbed at all and so the filter hadn’t been changed. I took a sample of gearbox oil too and found that it was red and so they had used standard ATF fluid rather than the proper Mobile/Esso fluid. I complained and they agreed to take it back and do the filter and oil.

Unfortunately due to circumstances and time they didn’t get the car back for another couple of months or so and I’d done 3k in the car in the meantime.

I regularly tow with the X5 and the week before last I was towing a car trailor and the transmission got ‘stuck’ in 3th gear for around 10 miles. Nothing I did worked to try and get it to change – stopped the car, switched it off, holding it at certain revs, tried to go through the gears manually nothing worked. However after around 10miles it just changed into 4th then 5th by itself and then continued to work fine.

I scanned the gearbox again and got codes ‘3 Pressure Regulator EDS 3’ and ’34 Transmission Oil Temperature Sensor’. I hoped that the filter and oil change would rectify this the following week.

The car went back in to have the fluid changed for the proper spec and the filter got changed.

This weekend I towed again and again after around 2 hours of towing it again got stuck in gear – this time 4th gear only this time it continued until I got to my destination a further hour or so later.

After a bit of reading I found out about the transmission cooler thermostat. I got one ordered and fitted before I had to tow home again. Turned out it was the original one. I towed home and this time it was perfect with no hanging in gear although there is still a slight harshness with 2-1 gear after about 40mins normal driving. This to me still indicates a possible temperature issue especially as it’s perfect before this.

So I’m now contemplating replacing the standard cooler incase it’s slightly blocked and/or possibly adding an additional one too just to be safe especially considering the towing I do.

Any thoughts anyone?
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  #32  
Old 08-18-2015, 10:40 AM
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Since incorrect fluid was used, I think you have more serious issues than a blocked cooler, especially with pressure regulator error. I would probably drop the pan and inspect for debris first. Depending on your findings, a more complete flush or valve body service might be called for. Whatever the case, I would certainly make certain all the foreign fluid was cleaned out.

2002 X5 3.0 285,050 miles (Original transmission fluid)
2004 325i 122,000 miles
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  #33  
Old 08-19-2015, 04:50 AM
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Whilst I'm inclined to agree with you to an extent....the regulator error code hasnt returned since having the fluid changed. Just the temperature one now remains and is intermittant.

I've been monitoring the transmission temperature with my Solus and found that as soon as it hits around 95deg C you can start to feel the slightly harsh 2-1 downshifts. Then they get more noticable after this. This takes around 40mins of normal urban driving before it gets to this temperature. It tends to sit at around 103-107degrees.

What temperatures do other owners tend to see?
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  #34  
Old 08-19-2015, 06:09 AM
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After doing some more research I'm seeing that my transmission temps are over what is recommended for running an automatic box at yet I think the temps I'm seeing are what other people will probably see on an X5 5HP-24 box due to the design of how it's cooled though a heat exchanger that's ran off the coolant radiator via a thermostat. The engines in our 4.6is seem to run at a very high temperature of around 105-108degrees - with this in mind the transmission is going to struggle to run at much under this.

Couple of links that are quite interesting..

Transmission Oil

Don’t Let Your 5HP24 Automatic Transmission Overheat

The majority of people seem to say that 200F (93C) is the maximum it should regularly see. This ties in with mine misbehaving at much over that.

Anyway....it's enough for me to warrant installing an additional external cooler to bring the temperatures down to a more acceptable level, especially when towing. Even if it doesnt fix the 2-1 problem, (although I think it will) it will help with the service life of the new fluid that's in there. No wonder the X5s are so prone to gearbox issues with such high running temperatures. Also ties in with the 4.8is being much less affected with their 6speed boxes and newer engine management systems since their coolant typically runs around 20-30degrees lower and thus so will the transmission.
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  #35  
Old 08-19-2015, 06:09 AM
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After doing some more research I'm seeing that my transmission temps are over what is recommended for running an automatic box at yet I think the temps I'm seeing are what other people will probably see on an X5 5HP-24 box due to the design of how it's cooled though a heat exchanger that's ran off the coolant radiator via a thermostat. The engines in our 4.6is seem to run at a very high temperature of around 105-108degrees - with this in mind the transmission is going to struggle to run at much under this.

Couple of links that are quite interesting..

Transmission Oil

Don’t Let Your 5HP24 Automatic Transmission Overheat

The majority of people seem to say that 200F (93C) is the maximum it should regularly see. This ties in with mine misbehaving at much over that.

Anyway....it's enough for me to warrant installing an additional external cooler to bring the temperatures down to a more acceptable level, especially when towing. Even if it doesnt fix the 2-1 problem, (although I think it will) it will help with the service life of the new fluid that's in there. No wonder the X5s are so prone to gearbox issues with such high running temperatures. Also ties in with the 4.8is being much less affected with their 6speed boxes and newer engine management systems since their coolant typically runs around 20-30degrees lower and thus so will the transmission.
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  #36  
Old 08-21-2015, 01:26 AM
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I think you can run it at 225 indefinitely. The transmission fluid will be fine.

I think the alarm point is around 260, IIRC.

When you look for references for standard temperatures, you want to look at modern ZF automatics and not older lower tech transmissions with older fluid specs.

And one of the links you included is selling transmission coolers.
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  #37  
Old 08-21-2015, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I think you can run it at 225 indefinitely. The transmission fluid will be fine.

I think the alarm point is around 260, IIRC..
Perhaps that's true.....I havent monitored temperatures whilst towing yet but they are only going to be worse than what I've already monitored and will be heading towards the 260 mark.

As far as I'm concerned, just like with engine oil - if I can get it to run cooler (obviously not too cool) then it will do it's job better than it would if it was hot. If I can get it down 15-20degrees then I think the box will be a whole lot happier (aswell as my peace of mind). I'll also be installing an inline oil thermostat aswell to ensure that it doesn't run too cool. I think BMW designed them to run them hot so that it burnt off any moisture in the fluid so that it would potentially last longer. I'd rather run the box cooler and change the fluid more regularly to be honest. I think the 6 speed boxes in the 4.8is run around 80-90degrees which I'd be much happier with.

Would you class the 5HP24 box as 'modern'? I'm not sure I would. It was first introduced in 1996 which is almost 20 years ago.
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 00USH View Post
Would you class the 5HP24 box as 'modern'? I'm not sure I would. It was first introduced in 1996 which is almost 20 years ago.
Yes, I would. It is generations ahead of older low tech automatics. Electronic control, backs off power when it shifts, faster shifts, lock up torque converters, internal temperature monitoring, adapts to fluid wear via feedback on clutch engagement times, etc.

The standard of 30,000 mile fluid changes came from the era of C4/C6/FMX, Torqueflights, Turbo 350s, and so on. That was because they made heat, with no monitoring or adaptation.
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  #39  
Old 08-24-2015, 04:36 AM
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If that's the case then.....isn't it a shame that this 'modern' box can't live upto 'modern' mileage. It seems as soon as the box reaches mileage around the 100k mark and it regularly develops some kind of issue.

Modern transmissions and technology shouldn't really bat an eyelid at 100k.
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:27 PM
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Hi V8 00USH,

Can I assume that this is your handiwork?

X5 4.6is 5HP24 External Transmission Cooler (2-1 Harsh Downshift Solution)

If so, very nice work! :thumb up:

I'm planning to add a similar external cooler to my 4.4 as a "belt & suspenders" approach to transmission oil cooling and fluid life.

I got my 4.4 X in 2014 with 78K miles and at 82K miles, being old school trained, I did a complete transmission fluid change and filter replacement with AMSOIL Signature Series ATF

AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

which is the fluid listed in the AMSOIL lookup for my model. Specs here:

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

My procedure was to drain and fill 4X with short drives between the next drain and fill so as to more completely arrive at nearly totally refreshed fluid. Each drain and fill was about 4 qts IIRC. After each fill, I ran the engine and went through a few gears standing still and waited until the oil pan temp was the specified number (via IR pyrometer) and filling each time to the dribble out level.

No transmission issues and I am at 96K miles now with a 1200 mile trip towing about a 4000# trailer in recent time.

Do you (or anyone else) have any pictures showing the exact factory cooler line to tap into as the return line for external cooler fitment?

One other question, did your -8AN push on fittings fit directly into the ID of the OE return line?

Thanks.

Mike
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