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  #81  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorious4.8is View Post
I have smoke after a brief idle coming from my 2006 4.8is. I inspected the hose going directly into the top of the intake manifold and there is a decent amount of oil in there. I have already ordered replacement diaphragms for the CCV's. Current ones were torn nearly all the way around. I'll report back the results after the new ones are installed and everything is cleaned and put back together.

As a mechanic, I must say your theory that the culprit of the smoke is not the valve stem seals and the true cause is being masked in the replacement of all the seals during the process of replacing the valve stem seals is very interesting and makes a lot of sense. The symptoms everyone is experiencing is not typical of worn valve stem seals. However, we are dealing with a BMW and anything is possible I guess. My plan is to attack everything else except the valve stem seals. There are several oil leaks on my engine so I'll seal those up first and see what happens. I'll post my results but I think you may be on to something here.
Been there and done all that. Intake had oil, pipes had oil, replaced all seals imaginable - twice. Still smoking on extended idle 10-15 minutes when engine is hot. Now doing the valve stem seals and as I remove them, their condition leaves no doubt whose fault it is. I'll post pics later tonight. I see no point of not doing the valve stem seals when you're tackling every other seal - the VSS are just a step away! If the smoking is fixed, well and good. If not, you will have to do it all over again, like I'm doing now
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Last edited by X5only; 10-31-2018 at 03:19 PM.
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  #82  
Old 11-01-2018, 02:00 AM
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Valve Stem Seals for the N62 in the AGA video

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Originally Posted by X5only View Post
Yep, most definitely - the red ones as seen in the AGA video.

The red ones in the AGA video are made by Elring in Germany. They use a Viton or Viton-like fluropolymer rubber.

For an N62 or N62TU, the BMW factory VSS P/N is 11340029751; the Elring P/N is 199440 for a box of 16 seals, one box per bank, two boxes total. These sell on Amazon for about $30 per box, and a number of sellers on eBay offer them too. I got the parts for the job I just finished on eBay. I used Elring Valve Cover Gaskets as well - worked great, saved a bunch of money.
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  #83  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanIsFast View Post
Cool, good to know. Thanks!

----


I just replaced my two breather hoses and pressure regulator valves and the smoke is definitely less than it was previously. I am going to assume I need to just "blow out" any residual oil that was in there and report back. Both hoses were oily, enough so to even drip out. One regulator seal was completely torn! Easy DIY and I am happy I did it. I did see an oil leak coming from the vacuum pump so that'll be next.
Nice work, I am glad this may save you money and time.
IF your intake is wet with oil you have a air leak allowing that to happen.
I can't say where your air leak is but any place in the engine leaking oil can be the location of the air leak. The crankcase must be sealed and that includes the dip stick and the oil cap seal on the valve cover.
Just get a new cap, they are cheap and always in stock which tells me BMW has issues with them.

As a mechanic, you know that valve stem seals can't put oil in your intake manifold. If you have oil in there you should accept you have an air leak in your crankcase ventilation system.

If you are paying a mechanic to do this job you will have a ton of labor cost involved, if you are that guy, paying for a mechanics time you could spend a little more money and have them do the valve stem seals.
To me this makes sense if you are facing a couple thousand in labor cost for this job, 80% of the time is already invested just replacing all the gaskets and seals, adding valve stem seals is not that much more.
If you turn your own wrenches and are competent to do this type repair you could seal up your engine at very little cost but maybe 20 hours time of your own under the hood and eliminate oil leaks at the same time.
When I change my wifes X5 oil now the drip pan is clean and dry.
It formerly would be wet with oil leaking.
Doing this job is not for everyone for sure.
Valve cover gaskets on one of these is a real pain for anyone.

I would bet 9 out of 10 of these burning oil do not have a valve stem problem.
If you tear an engine apart at 100K or more miles the VSS will probably tear on removal. Does not mean they were not working before tear down.

I have fixed 3 of the BMW V-8's, 2 4.4L and 1 4.8L in my family, I have not replaced a valve stem seal yet.
It has been 4 years now I think but my son's 4.4L went from burning a quart of oil in 400 miles at 144K to nearly zero consumption in 5,000 miles.
It was at 175,000 last I heard, my son sold it to his Aunt a couple years ago and she has just sold for a new BMW so we have lost touch now.
My son now has the new X5 Diesel, nice car I still have my 2008 X5 4.8L.

I only write this to help you save money not to debate if I am right or wrong.
The 5 minute test anyone can do is to remove the breather hose from the front of your manifold and see if it is wet and oily. It should be mostly dry, may have some residue of oil film, stuff you could wipe your finger in and come away with a dirty finger but but no wet oil.

Last edited by Westlotorn; 11-01-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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  #84  
Old 11-01-2018, 07:21 AM
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Either way gentlemen; if one person is doing a VSS job to eliminate the smoke, while the other is knocking out air/oil leaks - what's the difference? It's working! Both are solving the smoking issue. I'll keep a fund going if I ever need to do VSS job, but for now i'll work on the smaller items.

My 4.8iS would smoke terrible at red lights, and bumper-to-bumper traffic. Absolutely terrible! I've read a lot on the dreaded VSS and I actually knew this going into purchasing this vehicle. It was one of the negotiating items I used to get the vehicle at the price I was willing to spend. Kept researching about air/oil leaks and it makes sense. So, I started there - did both breather hoses last week along with both pressure regulator valves and the smoke has definitely gone away. Not 100%, I have tested letting it idle for a few minutes and no smoke, but If I let it idle for an extended period of time (which is rarely the case anyways), there is some smoke. Could this be residual oil prior to replacement of the hoses and regulators? Most likely. I did see a leak around the vacuum pump, I guess there is a seal in there that will need to be replaced. I will probably have that replaced soon as well.

My father owned one of the first E70 4.8iS (2007), and he still owns it. Well over 100k miles and I have never seen a smoke issue on that vehicle. And I will tell you he is not one on preventative maintenance. Only fixes it until something breaks, longggg oil interval changes, etc He's dumped thousands into it over the past 10+ years but he still loves driving it.
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  #85  
Old 11-01-2018, 02:04 PM
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The vacuum pump has two seals, an inner and an outer that can leak, both are O'Rings. The part numbers are shown in this forum but I don't have them handy. One is available at the BMW dealer but the other is not. You can get both from one of the aftermarket BMW parts houses, I found the part numbers on this forum when I did it. I tried an aftermarket oring from Napa first, it worked but was a little too large. The BMW house had a better set of O'Rings.
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  #86  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:27 PM
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Vacuum Pump O-Ring Kit

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Originally Posted by Westlotorn View Post
The vacuum pump has two seals, an inner and an outer that can leak, both are O'Rings. The part numbers are shown in this forum but I don't have them handy. One is available at the BMW dealer but the other is not. You can get both from one of the aftermarket BMW parts houses, I found the part numbers on this forum when I did it. I tried an aftermarket oring from Napa first, it worked but was a little too large. The BMW house had a better set of O'Rings.
Dorman offers a vacuum pump repair kit, P/N 917-146, that services the engine drive coupling O-ring, the big pump case O-ring, and includes five replacement pump cover screws in case these get damaged taking it apart. The price for this kit is expensive for what you get, all over the map: $53 to as little as $25; plenty of people sell it on eBay.

The latest pump engine drive O-ring from BMW sells for about $10 MSRP, P/N 11667509080 (07119903506, 11660151057). The numbers in the parentheses are still valid, but superseded BMW P/Ns.

BMW doesn't service the case O-ring, instead selling a whole new vacuum pump. My friend Dave got clipped for $625 in November, 2017, for a leaking case O-ring.

A month or two ago, I found this table data describing the vacuum pump O-rings on Dorman's website (reformatted here):

Case O-Ring
------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 93.66
Maximum Outside Diameter 96.76 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 92.34 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 95.24 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm
-
Engine Drive O-Ring
-------------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 53.45 mm
Maximum Outside Diameter 56.55 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 52.55 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 55.45 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm; 2.90 mm

Last edited by jpcallan; 11-01-2018 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #87  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcallan View Post
Dorman offers a vacuum pump repair kit, P/N 917-146, that services the engine drive coupling O-ring, the big pump case O-ring, and includes four replacement pump cover screws in case these get damaged taking it apart. The price for this kit is expensive for what you get, all over the map: $53 to as little as $25; plenty of people sell it on eBay.

The latest pump engine drive O-ring from BMW sells for about $10 MSRP, P/N 11667509080 (07119903506, 11660151057). The numbers in the parentheses are still valid, but superseded BMW P/Ns.

BMW doesn't service the case O-ring, instead selling a whole now pump. My friend Dave got clipped for $625 November, 2017, for a leaking case O-ring. A month or two ago, I found this table data describing the vacuum pump O-rings:

Case O-Ring
------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 93.66
Maximum Outside Diameter 96.76 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 92.34 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 95.24 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm
-
Engine Drive O-Ring
-------------------
Maximum Inside Diameter 53.45 mm
Maximum Outside Diameter 56.55 mm
Maximum Thickness 3.10 mm
Minimum Inside Diameter 52.55 mm
Minimum Outside Diameter 55.45 mm
Minimum Thickness 2.90 mm; 2.90 mm
Thanks for info!
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  #88  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:33 PM
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I used this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-N62-Vac...frcectupt=true
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  #89  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_robot View Post
I changed mine and it started leaking again from the case after a year or two. I did it again but applied a thin layer of sealant and that fixed it. Thin layer only, like barely!
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  #90  
Old 11-01-2018, 04:20 PM
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Beware the timing case gasket stub

Quote:
Originally Posted by X5only View Post
I changed mine and it started leaking again from the case after a year or two. I did it again but applied a thin layer of sealant and that fixed it. Thin layer only, like barely!

There's a big omission from the BMW TIS system regarding sealing the valve covers. My Snap-On man is a former BMW Master Mechanic whom I consulted before doing the valve stem seals job on my buddy Dave's X5. When getting ready to replace the valve covers I noticed a relatively big bump of timing case gasket extruded up at the front top and bottom of the head. I measured it with a feeler gauge; the ridge of rubber sat off the head's sealing surface by 66 thousandths (about 1/16"). I asked Mr. Snap-On about this - he told me I must trim the protruding gasket flush with the sealing surface, suggesting a lubricated single-edge razor blade so the gasket wouldn't tear.

No way the valve cover gasket would have sealed with a wisp of RTV silicone and that big ridge. See attached photo.

The valve cover I removed was leaking, even though the dealer had changed the valve cover gasket only last November, 2017.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by jpcallan; 11-02-2018 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Spelling
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