Dealer Blows my 4.8is engine!

[bcredliner]

They may be correct but how is it possible to be sure of what is wrong unless they are personally doing the troubleshooting

[PetrieJ]

I guess they're not sure until the vehicle is in front of them, but the story went (with consensus) that the diagnostics of other X5 4.8ises with blue smoke symptoms always led to valve stem seals, and after replacing (several $k job) the symptom went away.

Don't ask me, I'm not a certified tech. Their explanation made sense at the time.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by giodog2000

I rest my case....watch dogs over dealers.......

There is no case to rest. BMW customer relations people called to say they know about it. That is great.

Everybody seems to think that BMW is either going to pay for the dealer's mistake (not likely, btw) or that they are somehow going to force the dealer to do something that he wasn't going to do anyway (remember, the dealer already took responsibility).

The dealer agreement talks about standards of service. I haven't seen anything posted yet that says the dealer was violating those standards. It is the dealer's problem to fix, not BMW's. If BMW want to say "look how much we care" then great. But show us the money.

It is quite a different thing if the vehicle is under the BMW warranty, and BMW doesn't agree with how their dealer is handling their warranty. Then, they have an obvious role to play.

I think the dealer will resolve this issue to the satisfaction of the OP. They need to. But having been on both sides of that negotiation more than once (dealer, and distributor, not with BMW) the distributor doesn't have a lot of money to spend on investments in potential future customers, especially on 8 year old vehicles. Their oversight role is simply ensuring that the dealer is following fair business practices.

[giodog2000]

Originally Posted by JCL

There is no case to rest. BMW customer relations people called to say they know about it. That is great.

Everybody seems to think that BMW is either going to pay for the dealer's mistake (not likely, btw) or that they are somehow going to force the dealer to do something that he wasn't going to do anyway (remember, the dealer already took responsibility).

The dealer agreement talks about standards of service. I haven't seen anything posted yet that says the dealer was violating those standards. It is the dealer's problem to fix, not BMW's. If BMW want to say "look how much we care" then great. But show us the money.

It is quite a different thing if the vehicle is under the BMW warranty, and BMW doesn't agree with how their dealer is handling their warranty. Then, they have an obvious role to play.

I think the dealer will resolve this issue to the satisfaction of the OP. They need to. But having been on both sides of that negotiation more than once (dealer, and distributor, not with BMW) the distributor doesn't have a lot of money to spend on investments in potential future customers, especially on 8 year old vehicles. Their oversight role is simply ensuring that the dealer is following fair business practices.

Bro , nobody said BMWNA will pay for anything....I'm just saying that BMWNA , USA , CANADA etc do have their right to get involved in a dealer to costumer problem resolution....All I mentionned ( and others) was to have BMWNA involved in this situation. Nothing wrong with that but you had another opinion ( that I respect ) but for me the case is closed once the OP announced us that BMWNA is getting involved in this situation....
Anyways , everyone has their own opinion and it's all good. And I continue to think that it's a good thing that bmwna and dealer will COLLABORATE to give full satisfaction to a valuable client...

[Bnagy4.8]

Update, (long but worth it): After a long awaited weekend after the engine arrived at the dealership on Friday, the service manager assured me that the engine had a VIN number that is on all engines which is printed underneath the intake manifold (hidden away to prevent those who steal engines from etching it off). This is so they can track the motor back to the car it came from. The service manager also mentioned how beautiful the engine was and how it was "the nicest looking engine he has ever seen come in" (If this engine was that nice, my thoughts are that it was probably repainted and cleaned up to look brand new which is a little concerning as to why they took so much effort to make this engine look nice, interesting....)

Well, its Monday now and........ there is NO VIN NUMBER OR MARKINGS OF ANY KIND!

Now the service manager is at a national BMW conference in California somewhere for 4 days, so I spoke with my original service advisor and he said the tech searched the engine for a vin number and they could not find one on the engine, but he said they would check again (really! if they cant find a VIN number the first time then what makes them think it will just appear out of know where). I asked him if their were any makings on the engine to trace it back to the vehicle it came out of and he says they could not find anything.

So needless to say, they have an engine BUT; they do not know where it came from, what it came out of, whether its a 4.4i or 4.8is motor, its previous history, whether it was stolen, how many miles the engine has on it, whether it was rebuilt before, whether it is a flood motor, or anything other than the area it was shipped. As "my" insurance agent said its like buying a Rolex from a man/woman at a bar.

Needless to say, at what point would any rational minded person EVER put that motor into their car and take the dealerships word for it that the engine is in good standing condition. If that's the case then let me see the 2 year warranty. we all know they wont do that because they cant guarantee this motor "AT ALL".

Here is where I am at right now; let me see the check for $30k to get me into a newer car with nothing out of pocket, or a comparable car with the same amount of miles. I'm not holding my breathe. If BMW of North America and BMW Northwest wants to keep me as a customer then they need to just pony up a "BRAND NEW REBUILT FROM FACTORY MOTOR" which will cost well over $25k in which I am still crammed into their 328i coupe instead of an SUV. Or they cut me a check, use my truck for parts and auction it off and make back at least half or more of what they paid out.

But we all know what is going to happen, I will be out of a truck for more that a month or two while they keep shipping engines in and out until they find one that checks out. In the meantime they are wasting their time and resources.

As the service manager says, "these are baby steps". Really?! Baby steps for what!? Its going on 3 weeks tomorrow. My truck is sitting In the same place it did when they realized it was f***ed up. These guys have know sense of urgency whatsoever. Its bad enough that I need to call to get updates.
I don't mean to bash on BMW Northwest. They have been my BMW service center for 10 years between my brothers BMW's, my parents previous BMW and all of my BMW's along with a number of my friends who all take their cars in their for service and I have never had one bad thing to say about them because they are extremely friendly, inviting, sympathetic, and understanding, and honest. But this is getting ridiculous. Why they think I should trust them on a engine that isn't theirs and they know nothing about is ridiculous, trusting them is what got me into this mess in the first place. How they take care of me in this situation will determine my future business with them.

My anger and frustration is more directed toward the Insurance company who is doing their job by settling this by paying out as little as they can to close this claim. To know that this is the insurance agency behind BMW does not comfort me with the piece of mind that no matter what I will be taken care of and in good hands. After speaking with her on the phone it is clear that she is tired of talking to me, doesn't care about what I want or desire or what makes me happy. She looks at her bottom line, the value of the car (understandable). But, the only comment that is echoing in my mind is when we refused to get a used motor with out a warranty and her comments were "well your current car has a used motor that was out of warranty when you bought it". This clearly shows how small minded they are. When I purchased my vehicle I knew it was manufactured in Germany or in a factory. It also had service history that went back to where and when it was shipped from and when and where it was serviced. yes, its still a gamble but their is a large difference from an engine from a junk yard or garage installed by BMW and a engine installed by a factory from BMW itself. That's the kind of thinking from the insurance company that BMW is associated with.

I think I have vented enough of my frustrations so, what are your opinions?

[CTSportX5]

I agree with 1000% of what you said. Do not accept any motor based on "it's beautiful". If I were you I would settle on an amount and avoid the motor swap all together. The amount of money you think your getting screwed on in the settlement will be less of a hit than the value of your car AFTER the motor swap. Your truck goes from meticulous to questionable at best. What would you pay for a vehicle's story like what yours is going to be now???

[X-Nickel]

Originally Posted by Bnagy4.8

Update, (long but worth it): After a long awaited weekend after the engine arrived at the dealership on Friday, the service manager assured me that the engine had a VIN number that is on all engines which is printed underneath the intake manifold (hidden away to prevent those who steal engines from etching it off). This is so they can track the motor back to the car it came from. The service manager also mentioned how beautiful the engine was and how it was "the nicest looking engine he has ever seen come in" (If this engine was that nice, my thoughts are that it was probably repainted and cleaned up to look brand new which is a little concerning as to why they took so much effort to make this engine look nice, interesting....)

Well, its Monday now and........ there is NO VIN NUMBER OR MARKINGS OF ANY KIND!

Now the service manager is at a national BMW conference in California somewhere for 4 days, so I spoke with my original service advisor and he said the tech searched the engine for a vin number and they could not find one on the engine, but he said they would check again (really! if they cant find a VIN number the first time then what makes them think it will just appear out of know where). I asked him if their were any makings on the engine to trace it back to the vehicle it came out of and he says they could not find anything.

So needless to say, they have an engine BUT; they do not know where it came from, what it came out of, whether its a 4.4i or 4.8is motor, its previous history, whether it was stolen, how many miles the engine has on it, whether it was rebuilt before, whether it is a flood motor, or anything other than the area it was shipped. As "my" insurance agent said its like buying a Rolex from a man/woman at a bar.

Needless to say, at what point would any rational minded person EVER put that motor into their car and take the dealerships word for it that the engine is in good standing condition. If that's the case then let me see the 2 year warranty. we all know they wont do that because they cant guarantee this motor "AT ALL".

Here is where I am at right now; let me see the check for $30k to get me into a newer car with nothing out of pocket, or a comparable car with the same amount of miles. I'm not holding my breathe. If BMW of North America and BMW Northwest wants to keep me as a customer then they need to just pony up a "BRAND NEW REBUILT FROM FACTORY MOTOR" which will cost well over $25k in which I am still crammed into their 328i coupe instead of an SUV. Or they cut me a check, use my truck for parts and auction it off and make back at least half or more of what they paid out.

But we all know what is going to happen, I will be out of a truck for more that a month or two while they keep shipping engines in and out until they find one that checks out. In the meantime they are wasting their time and resources.

As the service manager says, "these are baby steps". Really?! Baby steps for what!? Its going on 3 weeks tomorrow. My truck is sitting In the same place it did when they realized it was f***ed up. These guys have know sense of urgency whatsoever. Its bad enough that I need to call to get updates.
I don't mean to bash on BMW Northwest. They have been my BMW service center for 10 years between my brothers BMW's, my parents previous BMW and all of my BMW's along with a number of my friends who all take their cars in their for service and I have never had one bad thing to say about them because they are extremely friendly, inviting, sympathetic, and understanding, and honest. But this is getting ridiculous. Why they think I should trust them on a engine that isn't theirs and they know nothing about is ridiculous, trusting them is what got me into this mess in the first place. How they take care of me in this situation will determine my future business with them.

My anger and frustration is more directed toward the Insurance company who is doing their job by settling this by paying out as little as they can to close this claim. To know that this is the insurance agency behind BMW does not comfort me with the piece of mind that no matter what I will be taken care of and in good hands. After speaking with her on the phone it is clear that she is tired of talking to me, doesn't care about what I want or desire or what makes me happy. She looks at her bottom line, the value of the car (understandable). But, the only comment that is echoing in my mind is when we refused to get a used motor with out a warranty and her comments were "well your current car has a used motor that was out of warranty when you bought it". This clearly shows how small minded they are. When I purchased my vehicle I knew it was manufactured in Germany or in a factory. It also had service history that went back to where and when it was shipped from and when and where it was serviced. yes, its still a gamble but their is a large difference from an engine from a junk yard or garage installed by BMW and a engine installed by a factory from BMW itself. That's the kind of thinking from the insurance company that BMW is associated with.

I think I have vented enough of my frustrations so, what are your opinions?

Look into the laws in your state and I'd say tell them to take your finished X5 back and just find you another one. Sad to say you know and I know that truck will never be the same so not worth the time to bother. Only other thing I would take from them is give you full retail value for yours and let you keep the truck as is.. You could make out that way to.. Good luck and hope it all works out.

[bcredliner]

I don't think it is fair or reasonable to ask you to accept an engine that the history cannot be verified. The engine certainly should be a 4.8. I don't think the loaner covers your 'pain and suffering'. I would have no peace of mind without history of the engine, and a 12 month guarantee. In addition, I would only feel there was a reasonable effort to rectify the problem if the engine had less miles on it than the one I had. Even then I am not sure I would feel comfortable in that X5. Likely I would sell it and upgrade to a newer model still under warranty ASApractical. I am not saying that the dealer, insurance carrier or BMW would agree but seems fair and logical to me.

[Bnagy4.8]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I don't think it is fair or reasonable to ask you to accept an engine that the history cannot be verified. The engine certainly should be a 4.8. I don't think the loaner covers your 'pain and suffering'. I would have no peace of mind without history of the engine, and a 12 month guarantee. In addition, I would only feel there was a reasonable effort to rectify the problem if the engine had less miles on it than the one I had. Even then I am not sure I would feel comfortable in that X5. Likely I would sell it and upgrade to a newer model still under warranty ASApractical. I am not saying that the dealer, insurance carrier or BMW would agree but seems fair and logical to me.

Everyone on this forum feels the same way but this all comes down to money. The car has a loan on it for $21k (purchased 08/21/12 w/ 42k on the odometer for 23K after trade in). With this engine swap their is no way to get what I owe for the car with out suing in court for the depreciated value of the vehicle. My insurance company is trying to work out a comprehensive coverage but its not looking very good because this situation has never come up before.

If they (the insurance company) do a cash pay out they will take the car, not give it back, we asked for $19k and my car back so we could find a motor and use money for the job and pay down the vehicle for depreciation and they said, "No, we need to make our money back by auctioning off your car". After thinking about it we decided a check and the car would have been a royal pain in the A**. I would have had it sitting in the driveway teasing me, no transportation, and more wasted time and towing to get it fixed.



Its just a waiting game.

[PetrieJ]

Time to back away. Money solves this problem much easier than what's going on so far.