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  #81  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:46 PM
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I'm at a year+ now with no adverse results from reusing bolts to add another data point.

Has anyone chimed in yet with a failure yet? I thought someone mentioned squeaking...
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  #82  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:04 PM
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Wow, a long thread about that plate at the bottom of the engine bay...If everyone has one like I do, made out of ~1/8" aluminum, then that plate can be torn to shreds before even a cheap steel bolt would fail. I had mine off last week because I wanted a look inside the oil pan on the '03 4.4 I purchased a few weeks ago. I think the next time I have it off I'll get slightly longer bolts with extra nuts so I can remove and replace it without having to get a wrench on them from above.
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  #83  
Old 02-08-2018, 01:19 PM
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There are not enough forum members to draw a conclusion that the bolts can be reused or should be replaced. An acceptable field research sample would be a significant percentage sample of all X5s with the reinforcement plate. BMW research would be based on a particular set of criteria that can be accurately duplicated, most likely using new vehicles.

Until reputable controlled scientific testing has been done, even logical sounding conclusions are sought after interesting opinions, IMO, because the bolts cost so much.

I think the best service we can do for forum members is to find out what the OEM specs are for the bolts and then find a source where the same bolts can be purchased at a significantly lower cost rather than take an unknown level of safety risk by reusing them.
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  #84  
Old 02-08-2018, 06:04 PM
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^I'm not sure you'd be satisfied with anything less than BMW coming out and saying the bolts are reusable even though their dealers do, in fact, reuse them. This, of course, will never happen. So if everyone posts that they have no adverse issues with the reuse of the bolts, that's as close as we are going to get to a scientific evaluation of the safety risk. And then, you can let new forum members, or current, draw their own conclusions from the available data set of forum members reusing the bolts.

As to finding replacement bolts... that would be great. If anyone sources something suitable... be it TTY or not, please do post it.
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  #85  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:53 PM
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- Just talked to a dealer mechanic. They re-use those bolts all the time.
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  #86  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
^I'm not sure you'd be satisfied with anything less than BMW coming out and saying the bolts are reusable even though their dealers do, in fact, reuse them. This, of course, will never happen. So if everyone posts that they have no adverse issues with the reuse of the bolts, that's as close as we are going to get to a scientific evaluation of the safety risk. And then, you can let new forum members, or current, draw their own conclusions from the available data set of forum members reusing the bolts.

As to finding replacement bolts... that would be great. If anyone sources something suitable... be it TTY or not, please do post it.
I have absolutely no problems with input about re-using bolts. My point is always the same---forum input is vastly insufficient to draw any conclusion and is not even close to being scientific by any standard. Nor is what particular(s) dealers do. Even if all dealers reuse them the key question to know the answer to is why do they when BMW states do not. If 99 members posted they reuse them and I was the one that didn't it is not enough to draw a conclusion.

You reuse the bolts, that's fine. However, you only know that thus far you have not sheared a bolt or had one come loose, not that it won't ever happen. I don't know if they will ever break or come loose, what circumstances would be the cause or what happens if they ever do. I only know I don't want to find out they do. I am not being obstinate or standing on ceremony. I sincerely would love to be wrong. Are you sure I am wrong? I'm not sure you are.
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  #87  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:59 PM
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This has been a very long thread for a set of bolts.
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  #88  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Are you sure I am wrong? I'm not sure you are.
Nope, not sure you are wrong. But with the data presented by the dealer techs I've spoken with, the indy shop I worked at, and the forum members... it is sufficient data for me to reuse them. All of us posting experiences doing so adds to the data, whether positive or negative.

We are not trying to dissuade you from reusing them, or anyone else. We are presenting data relating to their reuse. Readers can do with the information as they wish, just as you do. The reiteration of BMW's position is not contributing anything to the discussion.
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  #89  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:18 PM
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Every time this issue comes up there are readers that haven't read past threads. That's why it is important to post the other side of the story each time.

There are approximately 20,000 BMW dealers in the US. To be statistically reliable, draw a scientific conclusion, you would have to ask 377 service managers what their techs are supposed to be doing and why. In just 2002 there were over 42,000 X5s sold in the US. To reach 95% confidence +-5% the sample size is 382 for that year alone, if it is even possible to come up with the criteria each X5 would have to satisfy. If there was no chance the BMW position had anything to do with safety I wouldn't be such a pain in the A$% stickler about what is posted. At this point reuse is being promoted and justified because of excessive cost of the bolts not because of proof it doesn't matter.

My guess is that the BMW position is based on extreme and unusual conditions of some flavor that 1 in 40,000 had a symptom of potential failure or 1 bolt failed after 100 exposures to those conditions. Products are almost always designed to handle circumstances that they shouldn't be subjected to but might be. My guess is the decision to state replacement is necessary was primarily a CYA decision by the legal department. Did I mention that is a guess?
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Last edited by bcredliner; 02-09-2018 at 08:05 PM.
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  #90  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:56 PM
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They are being reused for a number of reasons. Chief being expense, but secondarily you have availability.

Members considering reuse or not only have to read this thread. Though increasingly they are going to have to wade through these type of posts in order to find the data points provided. It is not necessary to post BMW's position each time a data point is added. We realize you will never see not changing the bolts as acceptable practice and are okay with it. Certainly not trying to convince you of anything.
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2006 X5 4.8is Build 11/05 Maintenance/Build Log
Nav, DSP, Pano, Running Boards, OEM Tow Hitch, Cold Weather Pckg (Purchased 08/15 w/ 90,500 miles)

2010 X5 35d Build 02/10
Nav, HiFi, 6 DVD, Sports Pckg, Cold Weather Pckg, HUD, CAS, Running Boards, Leather Dash, PDC, Pano (Purchased 03/17 w/ 136,120 miles)
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