Thinking about buying a Diesel X5

[josiahg52]

Originally Posted by diegoX

Really love this truck but getting tired of the emission issues. I so want to delete it but inspection is quite strict in NJ. SCR Cat doesn't regenerate anymore and I already passed extended warranty. Does anyone know of an after market SCR cat converter reliable than the OEM?

The SCR catalyst doesn't regenerate. It should last the "lifetime" of the vehicle. Along with precious elements and a NOx reduction agent (urea), NOx in the emissions are eliminated.

The diesel particulate filter (DPF) does regenerate and will have a variable lifetime span dependent on duty cycle, operational conditions and drive cycle, among other things.

How many miles on your X5? How would you describe your typical use?

[diegoX]

Originally Posted by josiahg52

The SCR catalyst doesn't regenerate. It should last the "lifetime" of the vehicle. Along with precious elements and a NOx reduction agent (urea), NOx in the emissions are eliminated.

The diesel particulate filter (DPF) does regenerate and will have a variable lifetime span dependent on duty cycle, operational conditions and drive cycle, among other things.

How many miles on your X5? How would you describe your typical use?

Excuse my ignorance, I was just describing it as what the service adviser told me. Little history; 6 months ago (118,000 miles) the CEL lit, knowing that the NOX sensors were replaced only 2 years ago, I had the DPF removed cleaned and power washed by a local shop, cleared the code, drove it to Canada, coming back the CEL is back again. The shop eventually replaced the two NOX sensors, it cleared the CEL. One month ago (119,700 miles) the CEL came back again, OBD scanned NOX sensors, so I brought it to the dealership after realizing the NOX sensors were under warranty until 120k miles. They replaced the NOX sensors, the SA warned me that the CEL will light up again because the SCR cat needs to be replaced bec it doesn't regenerate? I attached their report below. Currently, it has 120,700 miles and the CEL is back on again!

It's a daily driver about 30 miles each way. EGR cooler, water pump, and thermostat were replaced at around 90K miles. I always fill the 2 DEF tanks every 3-4 weeks since that warning when the def is low doesn't seem to work anymore (it used to warn me every +/-500 miles "No start after 900 miles" but not anymore). Appreciate your input. Thanks so much

[josiahg52]

Yes, unfortunately the extended 10yr/120k mile warranty, while it covers a lot of components, does not cover the SCR.

The low DEF warning should come on approximately every 10000 miles. I gathered from your post that it was coming on every 500 miles at some point?

The SCR does not regenerate. What the service advisor is advising you is factually incorrect at best and part of a larger scheme to defraud you at the worst.

When I brought mine in due to an persistent low DEF warning and DeNOx System Inefficiency (P20EE/4D16). Dealer wanted to replace the SCR, pushed for it hard. Said "We'll do what you want but you'll be back in here with the same problems." I stood firm and only authorized them warranty items be replaced. That was 35k miles ago and all is well. I have gotten the P20EE code and CEL time to time but it's been about 5k miles without it. I use Liqui-Moly Super Diesel Additive every other tank, Diesel Purge every eighth tank followed by DPF Protector.

What are the fault codes that the dealer is getting with the CEL?

[diegoX]

Originally Posted by josiahg52

Yes, unfortunately the extended 10yr/120k mile warranty, while it covers a lot of components, does not cover the SCR.

The low DEF warning should come on approximately every 10000 miles. I gathered from your post that it was coming on every 500 miles at some point?

The SCR does not regenerate. What the service advisor is advising you is factually incorrect at best and part of a larger scheme to defraud you at the worst.

When I brought mine in due to an persistent low DEF warning and DeNOx System Inefficiency (P20EE/4D16). Dealer wanted to replace the SCR, pushed for it hard. Said "We'll do what you want but you'll be back in here with the same problems." I stood firm and only authorized them warranty items be replaced. That was 35k miles ago and all is well. I have gotten the P20EE code and CEL time to time but it's been about 5k miles without it. I use Liqui-Moly Super Diesel Additive every other tank, Diesel Purge every eighth tank followed by DPF Protector.

What are the fault codes that the dealer is getting with the CEL?

yes, about 500 miles and I want to blame it on myself for only filling the 1st fill. Thanks for the info! I will definitely try the Liqui-Moly Super Diesel , Diesel Purge, and DPF protector. I used the Diesel Kleen 2 years ago and the SA from the stealership blamed the additive for clogging the fuel filter (which was replaced 1 month prior), also advised me to not add anything to the fuel. I will try the liqui-moly this time. Is there a DIY specific for the X5 e70 using the Diesel Purge?

The dealer didn't tell me the fault codes, but my OBD showed 4D16: SCR efficience NOX sensor

[josiahg52]

I can't be sure if the Liqui-Moly additives have done anything for me but since I've been using it regularly, no more deNOx system efficiency codes. It may be masking the problem. The code seemed to come in on hotter days at 40mph or faster when decelerating with the engine. It wasn't very often but enough to get my attention.

The DEF capacities:
Passive 15.8L / 4.2 gal
Active 5.5 L / 1.5 gal

Tank #1 0 miles - Super Diesel Additive (SDA)
Tank #2 600 miles - nothing
Tank #3 1200 miles - SDA
Tank #4 1800 miles - nothing
Tank #5 2400 miles - SDA
Tank #6 3000 miles - nothing
Tank #6 3600 miles - SDA
Tank #7 4200 miles - nothing
Tank #8 4800 miles - Diesel Purge (DP)
Tank #9 5400 miles - DPF Protector (DPFP)
Tank #10 6000 miles - nothing
Tank #11 6600 miles - SDA
Tank #12 7200 miles - nothing
Tank #14 7800 miles - SDA
Tank #15 8400 miles - nothing
Tank #16 9000 miles - DP
Tank #17 9600 miles - DPFP, engine and oil filter change

I get about 600 miles per tank. I put the additive in before a fill up and amend this schedule as necessary if I'm filling up before the entire tank is used, going on a trip so I might do an oil change early, etc. I use Shell diesel, BP is my second, then Sunoco and then Chevron/Texaco. Exxon/Mobil is also acceptable.

I repeat this cycle three times and then replace the diesel fuel filter. After six cycles I replace the air filter also. I top off the DEF every oil change.

[diegoX]

Originally Posted by josiahg52

I can't be sure if the Liqui-Moly additives have done anything for me but since I've been using it regularly, no more deNOx system efficiency codes. It may be masking the problem. The code seemed to come in on hotter days at 40mph or faster when decelerating with the engine. It wasn't very often but enough to get my attention.

The DEF capacities:
Passive 15.8L / 4.2 gal
Active 5.5 L / 1.5 gal

Tank #1 0 miles - Super Diesel Additive (SDA)
Tank #2 600 miles - nothing
Tank #3 1200 miles - SDA
Tank #4 1800 miles - nothing
Tank #5 2400 miles - SDA
Tank #6 3000 miles - nothing
Tank #6 3600 miles - SDA
Tank #7 4200 miles - nothing
Tank #8 4800 miles - Diesel Purge (DP)
Tank #9 5400 miles - DPF Protector (DPFP)
Tank #10 6000 miles - nothing
Tank #11 6600 miles - SDA
Tank #12 7200 miles - nothing
Tank #14 7800 miles - SDA
Tank #15 8400 miles - nothing
Tank #16 9000 miles - DP
Tank #17 9600 miles - DPFP, engine and oil filter change

I get about 600 miles per tank. I put the additive in before a fill up and amend this schedule as necessary if I'm filling up before the entire tank is used, going on a trip so I might do an oil change early, etc. I use Shell diesel, BP is my second, then Sunoco and then Chevron/Texaco. Exxon/Mobil is also acceptable.

I repeat this cycle three times and then replace the diesel fuel filter. After six cycles I replace the air filter also. I top off the DEF every oil change.

Got it! Thanks! I may have to start using Shell or Sunoco Diesel. I always fill up at a generic gas station close by me. Thought they're all the same

[josiahg52]

Originally Posted by diegoX

Got it! Thanks! I may have to start using Shell or Sunoco Diesel. I always fill up at a generic gas station close by me. Thought they're all the same

Diesel is diesel for the most part but the marquee stations are generally in better condition and kept up better. Stations with low margins might skimp on certain infrastructure and maintenance items that can affect fuel quality. If you can find it, some stations sell SuperGold or premium diesel which is 50 Cetane and that is what I would use. It's total bullshit that 50 Cetane diesel is not more widely available in the US.


I also don't mind using a "generic" station if it sells high volumes of diesel like a station near an agricultural center might. I live in the Northeast and I found that once you get out of the Midwest or into the Southwest part of the US, it can be hard to find stations that you are used to; some have no branding.


I just try and do everything I can to keep clean fuel and air getting to the engine. I hope to get another 80-100k miles out of my X5 before any major failures but I know that the turbos will need replacement before that and at that time I'll clean or replace the intercooler and intake manifold and might have to do a valve job on the cylinder head just to touch the valve stem seals. I also foresee a new or cleaned DPF in my future.

[spyro235]

Originally Posted by josiahg52

Diesel is diesel for the most part but the marquee stations are generally in better condition and kept up better. Stations with low margins might skimp on certain infrastructure and maintenance items that can affect fuel quality.


I just try and do everything I can to keep clean fuel and air getting to the engine. I hope to get another 80-100k miles out of my X5 before any major failures but I know that the turbos will need replacement before that and at that time I'll clean or replace the intercooler and intake manifold and might have to do a valve job on the cylinder head just to touch the valve stem seals. I also foresee a new or cleaned DPF in my future.

Totally agree, I don't look for a name brand, I look for well used, high traffic stations.

You could get that out of your original turbos, I'm about to hit 244k on my originals, and I've only been deleted since 213kish. I almost had my dpf cleaned/burned out at a semi truck shop, but decided for the hassle I'd just delete.

[diegoX]

Originally Posted by josiahg52

I can't be sure if the Liqui-Moly additives have done anything for me but since I've been using it regularly, no more deNOx system efficiency codes. It may be masking the problem. The code seemed to come in on hotter days at 40mph or faster when decelerating with the engine. It wasn't very often but enough to get my attention.

The DEF capacities:
Passive 15.8L / 4.2 gal
Active 5.5 L / 1.5 gal

Tank #1 0 miles - Super Diesel Additive (SDA)
Tank #2 600 miles - nothing
Tank #3 1200 miles - SDA
Tank #4 1800 miles - nothing
Tank #5 2400 miles - SDA
Tank #6 3000 miles - nothing
Tank #6 3600 miles - SDA
Tank #7 4200 miles - nothing
Tank #8 4800 miles - Diesel Purge (DP)
Tank #9 5400 miles - DPF Protector (DPFP)
Tank #10 6000 miles - nothing
Tank #11 6600 miles - SDA
Tank #12 7200 miles - nothing
Tank #14 7800 miles - SDA
Tank #15 8400 miles - nothing
Tank #16 9000 miles - DP
Tank #17 9600 miles - DPFP, engine and oil filter change

I get about 600 miles per tank. I put the additive in before a fill up and amend this schedule as necessary if I'm filling up before the entire tank is used, going on a trip so I might do an oil change early, etc. I use Shell diesel, BP is my second, then Sunoco and then Chevron/Texaco. Exxon/Mobil is also acceptable.

I repeat this cycle three times and then replace the diesel fuel filter. After six cycles I replace the air filter also. I top off the DEF every oil change.

Hey 350 miles after I poured the first Liqui-Moly SDA the CEL disappeared!!! I was like.. what..? it's a miracle!!! All the money I spend before and it came down to just a fuel additive! Thank you for the recommendation! Hope it stays clear of CEL. I will follow the same recommendation.

[josiahg52]

That's very interesting to hear! I don't know what it means, not sure what the additive is doing, why it seems to be "required", if our problems are a sign of other issues, etc.