Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X5 (E70) Forum
Arnott
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2023, 05:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 88
Corellian Corvette is on a distinguished road
Removing Adaptive Drive system - including coding. Any guides?

I'm about to embark on the removal of the Adaptive Drive system on my 2008 X5 4.8i.

The car is in excellent condition but there are a lot of leaks in the system, and having a driven a car with the standard sports swaybars I'm unconvinced that the system is worth the trouble. Plus, over time, I think it's just easier to maintain the standard swaybar system.

Given that, I plan on documenting the process along with part numbers and coding tips as well as what's entailed for removing the physical components. Looking at my 2 e70's, the 3.0 without Adaptive Drive has a lot less hoses and wires in the way so I'm excited to clean up the engine compartment as well.

I'm aware that I need to remove the VO $2VA from the vehicle, and I then assume there are some warning settings I need to remove in the individual ECU's to prevent the car from giving me warning lights.

Has anyone done this, that can point me specifically to a guide? I have yet to see one. Specifically, tips on what ECU's I need to remove the VO from, if there are any other related VO's, and which ECU warnings I need to code out.

Thanks in advance! Looking forward to creating this guide...
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 02-07-2023, 11:53 PM
ard ard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Foothills, California
Posts: 6,731
ard is on a distinguished road
Havent seen it done before. Generally people with the skills to do it properly seem to recognize the clear value of the system
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2023, 02:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 88
Corellian Corvette is on a distinguished road
Please share with me the clear value. I have read the BMW documentation on Adaptive Drive, and I own 5 X5's - 3 E53 models (4.6is, 4.4 N62, and 3.0) as well as an E70 3.0 and E70 4.8.

Only the 4.8 has adaptive drive. The rest have standard steering and sway bars.

I notice no real differences with the adaptive drive vs other cars. Perhaps an overall softer ride while having good cornering, but that's subjective. I'm aware of what the system does but again, it feels no different in practical use then the 3.0 with sport suspension option.

What I do know is that as this car ages, the cost to repair worn parts on this system are very, very expensive. And the extra hydraulic lines in the engine compartment make some basic maintenance tasks more difficult.

So while parts are still available, I'd rather convert to a simpler and easier to maintain system (which was also available from the factory) while parts availability and the institutional knowledge to make the swap are still around.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-10-2023, 03:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 76
rbryantaz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corellian Corvette View Post
Please share with me the clear value. I have read the BMW documentation on Adaptive Drive, and I own 5 X5's - 3 E53 models (4.6is, 4.4 N62, and 3.0) as well as an E70 3.0 and E70 4.8.

Only the 4.8 has adaptive drive. The rest have standard steering and sway bars.

I notice no real differences with the adaptive drive vs other cars. Perhaps an overall softer ride while having good cornering, but that's subjective. I'm aware of what the system does but again, it feels no different in practical use then the 3.0 with sport suspension option.

What I do know is that as this car ages, the cost to repair worn parts on this system are very, very expensive. And the extra hydraulic lines in the engine compartment make some basic maintenance tasks more difficult.

So while parts are still available, I'd rather convert to a simpler and easier to maintain system (which was also available from the factory) while parts availability and the institutional knowledge to make the swap are still around.
I do find that the adaptive drive tightens up the suspension on m y 2007 4.8i on winding roads when I turn on the sport mode. I can feel a difference where handling is improved. It isn't night and day to me but I do feel it stiffen up so I use it.

I agree that the cost for that difference is quite expensive...

Unlike the e90 M3 where Bilstein offers replacement EDC shocks I haven't found any aftermarket shocks/struts for the adaptive drive e70.

The OEM fronts AND rears are $1k or so new which is really expensive! The OE Sachs struts are $110/140 so it is almost an order of magnitude more expensive for the adaptive versions! So that is $4k vs $500 or an 8x difference for replacement shocks and struts.

My X5 just is more of a second vehicle, I drive the e90 for fun so the cost seems too high for me too...


It might be good to keep just the active swabar if possible unless it fails. The lines from the steering pump would need to be modified to put in a standard swaybar (probably looped or plugged) or the steering pump would have to also be swapped out to a standard one so there is some extra work there..

If my shocks or struts fail and I can't find low mileage used ones I may consider putting in standard shocks/struts.

It would probably work to just install a power resistor for each pair of shocks/struts (or even one per shock) if the coding isn't straight forward.

I have a custom PWM controller installed on my E90 335i to run M3 EDC the front and rear pairs of shocks. They are about 2.5Ohms for each shock and run in series to get the resistance up to 5Ohms and have a max current of 2amps which seems to match the e70 documents... They can be emulated by a 4.7 Ohm 100W resistor (connected to the car body to sink the heat) A higher wattage is best to avoid melting it over time. A 50watt power resistor gets very hot at 2amps (it will burn you) so bigger is better.... It might also be better to use an 8Ohm resistor (or 4.7ohm per shock) to limit the current assuming that it doesn't cause a fault code. A four pack of 100W resistors is only $10 or so making it a cheap soln, 200W resistors cost a bit more and are much larger.

On the e90 the shocks are "on" in normal so it is taking 2amps of current to run them at max soft mode during daily driving. In sport mode the solenoid is less active to stiffen them up and draws less current. I don't recall if the e70 is on or off in non sport mode, it is probably the same as the e90 EDC shocks but it would be easy to check with a current meter.

This thread does discuss replacing the shocks with standard units and it just gives an error at startup and otherwise works fine. So the resitor fix would probably make it straight forward and be fine other than it has to be large enough to dissipate the heat. I did find a thread where KW has a solution and there was mention of another company that made a kit that used some active circuits instead of a resistor to avoid the heat.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...estions-2.html

-Rich

Last edited by rbryantaz; 02-10-2023 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-10-2023, 04:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 88
Corellian Corvette is on a distinguished road
Thanks Rich! Appreciate the feedback.

I've been researching the parts for the Adaptive drive vs stock suspension, and it's clear to me at this point that if you want to remove one part (sway bars or shocks) you have to remove both. The $VO on the E70 doesn't separate out Adaptive Drive and EDC and it's the same control unit. So coding out one appears to code out both.

The physical removing of the components look super easy (although there is a lot). The Adaptive Drive power steering pump is different, but the lines for the active sway bars is a single banjo bolt attached to the side of the pump, which uses the same threads as the Transmission Fill plug. So I *think* blocking the pump will be a simple matter of removing the banjo bolt and using a hex-plug (like the trans uses) to block that port.

Doing so will clean up a BUNCH of leak and failure points in both the front and back of the system and making working in the engine compartment much cleaner.

As for the EDC, that then becomes a matter of swapping over to standard sports shocks. Springs and a lot of the acutal hardware are the same, so replacing the EDC struts with standard will be very easy.

I've priced this out, and including a set of used sway bars, you can re-fresh the entire suspension and do this conversion (shocks and struts) for about $1200. That's reusing springs but everything else is brand new (struts, bump-stops, end links, etc.)

Considering one EDC shock is well over a grand, and the power steering pump alone is like $900, it's a lot of money at once but seems like it would be economical in the long run. Those lines WILL age, the shocks WILL age, and so the question I'm facing now is do I jump in front of all that and make the switch while parts (and knowledge) are fresh - or wait until they fail to make the swap. I'm torn.

I think the first step is going to be to code out the VO, unplug the module, and see what happens. Reading online, the EDC and Sway Bar will go into a default failure mode, but I'm mostly concerned with what features I'm going to loose, coding out error lights, etc.

I may try that first then decide if I go the whole hog. If I do, I'll document everything with PN and coding for others to follow.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-10-2023, 04:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 76
rbryantaz is on a distinguished road
After looking a bit more here is a coding guide... It is for an e65 but they mention that it should work for e70. I haven't verified it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9wxyQ-Bbk

This kit is also a good option for $250 or less:

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...ulation-module

Last edited by rbryantaz; 02-10-2023 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-12-2023, 10:01 PM
ard ard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Foothills, California
Posts: 6,731
ard is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryantaz View Post
I do find that the adaptive drive tightens up the suspension on m y 2007 4.8i on winding roads when I turn on the sport mode. I can feel a difference where handling is improved. It isn't night and day to me but I do feel it stiffen up so I use it.
h

One comment:

Adaptive Drive is always 'on'... when you switch on 'sport' you just change parameters. Its not like when in the regular mode the car is driving like a standard (passive) suspension, then when you turn on 'sport' it is active. It is always using AD, just has two different settings



The true comparison is same car, one with one without. Needs to be the same driveline/weight.


The best observation- IMO- is that Adaptive Drive makes the car handle as if it has 1000 lbs less weight. The car just feels less ponderous, more settled. In an A/B comparison, on the same road or same course, it really is quite noticeable.





Otherwise, really thoughtful post.


If my EDC parts ever die, I'll repair them- or convince those guys in Poland to give it a shot!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-13-2023, 01:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 76
rbryantaz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
One comment:

Adaptive Drive is always 'on'... when you switch on 'sport' you just change parameters. Its not like when in the regular mode the car is driving like a standard (passive) suspension, then when you turn on 'sport' it is active. It is always using AD, just has two different settings



The true comparison is same car, one with one without. Needs to be the same driveline/weight.


The best observation- IMO- is that Adaptive Drive makes the car handle as if it has 1000 lbs less weight. The car just feels less ponderous, more settled. In an A/B comparison, on the same road or same course, it really is quite noticeable.

Otherwise, really thoughtful post.


If my EDC parts ever die, I'll repair them- or convince those guys in Poland to give it a shot!
That is very true. The Adaptive drive extends the range of the shocks because it is adjustable. The non Adaptive shocks/swaybar have to be setup as a compromise between handling and comfort.

The question is where to the adaptive shocks and swaybar fall within that range? I don't know but I would guess in the middle or slightly to the comfort side?

Leaving the adaptive swaybar with standard shocks in is interesting though That will still stiffen things up and should make it a little tighter than the standard setup in sport mode and probably looser in normal mode. This of course is different than either setup but should not cause a problem. I expect that the adaptive swaybar will have a longer life than the shocks.

It is very true that the adaptive swaybar does take up a lot of space and make things harder to work on. I strongly suggest slotting the AC idler pulley adjustment bolt with a dremel to adjust it rather than trying to do that from the bottom side where there is no space.

On my 335i with M3 EDC shocks I do notice a pretty big difference when I turn them soft vs stiff. I was actually surprised how much adjustment it had. I can vary them form full stiff by turning off my controllers (or running them at the minimum 5% duty cycle) all the way to full soft to a 66% duty cycle PWM signal (2 amps) independently for front/rear.

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-13-2023, 07:15 PM
ard ard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Foothills, California
Posts: 6,731
ard is on a distinguished road
Just adding that AD is 'active'- so it isnt just 'changing settings'


It actually changes stiffness DURING dynamic maneuvers- take speed bumps, the system will see the front compress and will soften the rears... during a turn it will stiffen the sway bars AS the pitch/yaw sensors are telling the controller "the body is trying to roll'...and then, when the maneuver is over, it will soften to get ready for the next movement...


I have a very (very) stiff system on the 996TT, two way dampers, all that- and it is stiff ALL the time. AD is a system that is compliant when flat, but stiffens in ways that counter the motion.


I dont know enough about the EDC system and how if differs from the AD


My take away is that AD isnt just 'variable sway and strut settings'- but rather dynamically variable is the body is moving.


I had driven one of the first such systems on the Infiniti Q45 in 1992. Compared to that, the BMW system is much more refined- almost undetectable when it intervenes. Which is IMO they were going for.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-14-2023, 11:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 76
rbryantaz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Just adding that AD is 'active'- so it isnt just 'changing settings'


It actually changes stiffness DURING dynamic maneuvers- take speed bumps, the system will see the front compress and will soften the rears... during a turn it will stiffen the sway bars AS the pitch/yaw sensors are telling the controller "the body is trying to roll'...and then, when the maneuver is over, it will soften to get ready for the next movement...


I have a very (very) stiff system on the 996TT, two way dampers, all that- and it is stiff ALL the time. AD is a system that is compliant when flat, but stiffens in ways that counter the motion.


I dont know enough about the EDC system and how if differs from the AD


My take away is that AD isnt just 'variable sway and strut settings'- but rather dynamically variable is the body is moving.


I had driven one of the first such systems on the Infiniti Q45 in 1992. Compared to that, the BMW system is much more refined- almost undetectable when it intervenes. Which is IMO they were going for.
That is true, it is independent per wheel (and stabilizer) at all times to stabilize the vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1seT4sSI04
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:44 PM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.