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  #11  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:25 PM
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Actually, it is sort of the opposite. As EU emissions regulations become stricter, it is making for much less of an obstacle to market diesels in the US; cars/SUVs no longer have to be engineered with ultra-low emissions specifically for the very small US diesel market. Note that BMW will (most likely) have two diesel engines in the US for 2014 (as will Mercedes), as well as the Fiat diesel in Jeep(s), and diesels from Chevrolet and Mazda not previously offered.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Actually, it is sort of the opposite. As EU emissions regulations become stricter, it is making for much less of an obstacle to market diesels in the US; cars/SUVs no longer have to be engineered with ultra-low emissions specifically for the very small US diesel market.
The problem is that while both NA and Europe are moving to stricter emissions regulations, they are not harmonized. Thus, dual engine development and certification programs are required. The regulations differ in the way they balance CO and NOx, apart from the sulphur issue. Also, the test cycles are different, and vehicles are optimized to be clean on the test cycles they are certified to.
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Last edited by JCL; 04-15-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:21 PM
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Unless plans have changed in the last month, MY2014 F15 diesel production will start in 12/2013 for the US market.
No plans have changed, that is still the case as per BMW docs. The 5-series is getting diesel in summer and most probably it will be the same engine for X5.
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:23 PM
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It is hard to imagine that they would keep two platforms of X5 models (E70 and F15) in production at the same time, to accomodate two engine options. My bet would be that diesels would not be available in the interim.
No X5 diesel between August to December 2013. They will just make extra E70 diesel before stopping production and use them for little while .
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:44 PM
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It's strange how fuel types have changed over the years, but in the UK petrol consumption has dropped over 25% over the last few years, partly due to the cost of fuel, partly due to a switch to smaller engines 1,000cc turbocharged), but mainly due to the massive swing to diesel power across all cars. More than 50% of all new cars being registered use diesel power.

With the diesel markets elsewhere around the world outside the US becoming ever larger, and the challenges of getting multiple engines approved by both State and Federal Regulators (the EU has just one for the entire area) it's hardly surprising that BMW have limited the range on offer. Other manufacturers may well be doing the same. The costs of multiple testing regimes would be (and probably is) prohibitive.
I think you also have to consider government tax policies. In the UK, there are taxes based on CO, so lower CO emitters like diesels have a tax advantage. Diesel fuel isn't taxed more at the pump. In the US, diesel has an additional tax at the pump, providing an incentive for gasoline vehicles. Diesels may be more efficient, but fuel is relatively cheap, so much so that when I looked at an X5d two years ago I would have had to drive it 80,000 miles or so (from memory) just to break even on the purchase price premium over the 35i.

BMW will go to the trouble of certifying vehicles if they can make a buck doing so. But given the very low transaction prices they command in the US (on a world wide basis) it is no surprise that they won't clog up production capacity with orders for the US when they can sell those same engines (with different certifications) at much higher prices in other markets.
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  #16  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:46 AM
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Diesel has a 3% tax surcharge on top of petrol in the UK at the oumps, and diesel powered cars are more expensive to buy and tax too, again because of a charge. ULSD is several pence per litre more expensive to buy by about 16 cents. So we have the same issues with break even mileage, but the economy and torque of the smaller engines that encourage owners, and for the larger engines the range difference of up to 200 miles per tank between a petrol V8 and a 6-cyl twin turbo diesel is a big deal breaker for many SUV owners, hence the increasing number of car makers dropping petrol variants completely from the UK and other parts of Europe.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JCL View Post
The problem is that while both NA and Europe are moving to stricter emissions regulations, they are not harmonized. Thus, dual engine development and certification programs are required. The regulations differ in the way they balance CO and NOx, apart from the sulphur issue. Also, the test cycles are different, and vehicles are optimized to be clean on the test cycles they are certified to.
Yes, but emissions standards, certification, etc. of gasoline vehicles are not harmonized, either. Nor is crash testing, or other vehicle standards (lighting, etc.); if the US adopted EU standards, it would help our ailing auto industry, but I digress...

My point was that because the EU now has stricter standards, they are having to incorporate urea tanks, particulate filters, etc. in designs for their domestic market, which makes it much easier to certify diesel vehicles for our market, even if the specific requirements and testing remain different.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:26 PM
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Diesel has a 3% tax surcharge on top of petrol in the UK at the pumps, and diesel powered cars are more expensive to buy and tax too, again because of a charge. ULSD is several pence per litre more expensive to buy by about 16 cents. So we have the same issues with break even mileage, but the economy and torque of the smaller engines that encourage owners, and for the larger engines the range difference of up to 200 miles per tank between a petrol V8 and a 6-cyl twin turbo diesel is a big deal breaker for many SUV owners, hence the increasing number of car makers dropping petrol variants completely from the UK and other parts of Europe.
I understood there was no tax surcharge at the pumps, but I haven't lived in the UK for a few years now.

For the 3% tax surcharge, are you perhaps referring to the benefit in kind tax on your income tax if your employer pays for your fuel?

I had several diesels in the UK (Discovery, Passat, several company cars) and the diesel vs petrol decision was a no-brainer, they paid for themselves right away.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:29 PM
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My point was that because the EU now has stricter standards, they are having to incorporate urea tanks, particulate filters, etc. in designs for their domestic market, which makes it much easier to certify diesel vehicles for our market, even if the specific requirements and testing remain different.
But apparently not easy enough to certify the 40d, or 50d, or more than two diesel engines across the entire vehicle line.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:57 PM
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Two is twice as many BMW diesel engines as there have ever been in the US at any one time - and if memory serves, as many diesel engines as any manufacturer has ever had on sale in the US at any one time. Regardless of how easy diesels may be to certify, there still needs to be a market before they even bother to spend money to print a brochure...
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