I'll take Covid in Floriduh for $100...or "Is DeSantis toast?"

[bcredliner]

https://www.cnet.com/health/parentin...-what-to-know/

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...ster-Shot.html
00:31:06

BE Hi. My question is, will the vaccine booster be the last dose to [unclear] global immunity to the COVID virus? Can you explain a little more on the subject? In other words, if everyone in the world had been vaccinated with the booster dose would the pandemic still exist? Thanks.

CL We didn't quite get the beginning of your question but I think we'll go on the... if everybody... Okay, let's try to repeat this, Belisa, just the beginning. We couldn't hear.

BE My question is, will the vaccine booster be the last dose to [unclear] global immunity to the COVID virus?

CL Will boosters give global immunity, lasting immunity to the virus? Is that what we heard?

SS I can start and maybe Bruce or Kate may want to come in. This question of the boosters is also something that we've been looking at very closely and again we've always said that we will follow the science.

What the science is telling us now - and we look across the different vaccines that are being used around the world because if you remember, there are three aspects that can affect immunity.

00:32:36

One is the person and their own status. The older you are, the more underlying conditions you have or if you're on immunosuppressive drugs then your immune system may be weak and so you may need additional help to boost that immune response so it's the biological factors.

The second of course is the variant and we've seen that starting from the beginning, the ancestral strain different variants have had different levels of immune escape and with omicron we know that it has the highest levels of immune escape or immune evasion that we've seen across all of the variant so far. Beta and gamma also had that.

Then the third variable of course is the vaccine itself and there are differences between the different vaccines in how high the antibody response is, how long the protective immunity lasts and so on.

But again the good thing is that across all of the vaccines high levels of protection against severe disease, that's the outcome we're most interested in, protection against death. Against omicron many of the vaccines have shown a reduction in efficacy against infection and that's why we see a lot of breakthrough infections but these are mostly not resulting in severe disease so that's a positive.

00:33:56

There is some waning which occurs over a period of time and we've seen that there's a slight drop in the protection again mostly against infection but also a little bit against the severe disease and we need more of those studies, we need to follow this out.

That is why we've said, putting all of those together, the aim is to protect the most vulnerable, to protect those at highest risk of severe disease and dying. Those are our elderly populations, the immunocompromised, people with underlying conditions but also healthcare workers because if a lot of healthcare workers get infected, as we see now, they can be out sick and we don't want them getting severely ill so to reserve boosters for that population.

There's no evidence right now that healthy children or healthy adolescents need boosters, no evidence at all so this is why the SAGE, which is our technical expert body that makes policy recommendations, has been meeting and will continue to meet, will meet later this week to consider this specific question of how should countries think about giving boosters to their populations with a view to protecting people, with a view to reducing deaths.

00:35:11

The above is the entire section where boosters were discussed. What she said was taken out of context. Should be read from 31.06 to 35.11 It was about prioritizing boosters according to those most most vulnerable and based on particular circumstances. Since there was no current evidence boosters are needed for healthy 12-17 year olds they should not be a priority at this time. The point is that at this time there is no evidence either way according to WHO.

If you read the entire Reuter's post it also clarifies the rationale for the WHO statement.

[ard]

Apparently there was an anti-vax protest...





the counter protesters began a chant:

"Lets Go Darwin"



https://www.rawstory.com/lets-go-darwin/


'Let's Go Darwin!' Counter-protesters mock anti-vaxxers at DC 'Defeat the Mandates' rally

[crystalworks]

^Just as funny as "Let's go Brandon."

Even with 100% vaccination (impossible obviously) rates we are all going to get this eventually. Vaccination does not prevent infection, only helps to prevent serious illness and/or need for medical care. The idea of "break through" cases is stupid. Out of my family, and extended family now, all of whom were vaccinated/boosted (except the kids who only had first dose). All have had covid.

My family is recovering now from covid. We can only be as careful as the people we see. My Dad gave it to us during our birthday celebration Jan 9th after participating in activities we told him were "high risk." We usually celebrate his, mine, my son's, and my daughter's together as they are all within 7 days. He is fully vaccinated, as is my Mom, but they go out to eat, visit friends, etc. He showed up with a cough and assumed it was allergies (mountain cedar season). Gave it to my son, who of course gave it to the rest of us through the course of caring for him as he is only 5 and not capable of understanding the full grasp of "quarantine." Nor would I expect or want him to. Boy tested positive at the pediatrician the 11th, Dad got tested that same day and tested positive as well. Mom is still negative so far.

We had gotten the kid's first shot on the boy's birthday, and our boosters. That, combined with Unicron being not as bad as previous strains, probably led to lesser symptoms and nobody was seriously ill. Kids had it worst with 103 temp for the boy and 104 for the girl. Sore throats for all of us, wife had foggy thinking pretty bad, and general lethargy for all. It affected me the least (maybe because I'm the biggest, who knows) and is equivalent to a mild cold so far as I was the last one to get it. Dad is just now getting over it after having it for 3 weeks.

Moral of the story? Make your own choices and live with them. Stop blaming others. Do I blame my Dad? No. He feels bad enough already. Though my wife was pretty miffed, at the end of the day we chose to see them knowing how they conduct themselves. Hah! We probably won't be seeing them for awhile though until the PTSD wears off for the kids and the wife. During a fever spell our 8yo daughter said, "so we're not seeing Grandma and Grandpa for a long time right?" LoL, that one got to my Dad.

[bcredliner]

Also anecdotal---It has been quite different for our family. We are all vaccinated and boosted. None of us has had COVID. We minimize the times we are all together and when we do we usually get tested prior. We follow the guidelines of wearing masks when we should and social distancing. All of us minimize social activities. One important reason we are so careful is the number of instances that COVID has caused longterm, even permanent problems after being infected.
We all have good insurance coverage. I can't imagine the hospital bills the uninsured are facing. I wonder what anti vaccination parents tell their children when they come home from school asking to be vaccinated.

Over 300,000 have died and there's no one that has wantonly contributed? It's no wonder that when there is a good samaritan that risks their life for a stranger that it makes headline news. This didn't have to happen. When our grandchildren read about the pandemic they will be asking how stupid could we be? It was preventable and we chose political alignment our right to refuse to be vaccinated over our safety and health? We choose our political party based on how it matches our beliefs as to what is best for our country but we choose not to get vaccinated because it is not good for the country?

Vaccinations do prevent getting COVID. There are breakthrough cases but the percent is very small. There is no logic based on not being vaccinated because we will be infected anyway. That's not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fznVM9WPqaM

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Also anecdotal---It has been quite different for our family. We are all vaccinated and boosted. None of us has had COVID. We minimize the times we are all together and when we do we usually get tested prior. We follow the guidelines of wearing masks when we should and social distancing. All of us minimize social activities.

We were in the same circumstance until 3 weeks ago. Masks, testing, yada, yada. Parents tested negative before our birthday GTG. When you or your family get it, I hope you/they experience it as mildly as we have. It may be years from now... took 2+ years to get my family. Glad it was after vaccines were available. I feel for those infected before they were as they had no choice.

With Unicron, testing has proven to be incredibly unreliable, even after symptoms are displayed. Articles and studies are showing that.

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Vaccinations do prevent getting COVID. There are breakthrough cases but the percent is very small. There is no logic based on not being vaccinated because we will be infected anyway. That's not true.

We have different definitions of very small. "Breakthrough" cases are incredibly common as shown by the infections on the charts below from your trusted CDC. We are about as careful as you could be, bordering on hermits. Homeschooling kids, no eating out, no in-store grocery shopping, etc.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...vaccine-status

I still advocate for getting vaccinated as I think it greatly reduces the effects you'll have. But in no way is a mandate necessary and in no way do I blame or berate anyone for not wanting to get vaccinated. We aren't "beating" covid and it isn't going away. It isn't going to kill everyone and isn't the bogey man. Every doctor I've spoken to says the same thing. It's here to stay and will be a yearly booster. Everyone should make their own choices with the information we all have access to.

I am not debating this with you bcredliner as time has proven you to be incapable. I don't usually see your posts anymore but clicked to view this one thinking you might say something of consolation or well wishes. How stupidly optimistic of me.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

We were in the same circumstance until 3 weeks ago. Masks, testing, yada, yada. Parents tested negative before our birthday GTG. When you or your family get it, I hope you/they experience it as mildly as we have. It may be years from now... took 2+ years to get my family. Glad it was after vaccines were available. I feel for those infected before they were as they had no choice.

What is your source for saying everyone is going to get COVID?

With Unicron, testing has proven to be incredibly unreliable, even after symptoms are displayed. Articles and studies are showing that.

The testing procedure where the results are not as reliable is the quick testing, not the PCR testing.

We have different definitions of very small. "Breakthrough" cases are incredibly common as shown by the infections on the charts below from your trusted CDC. We are about as careful as you could be, bordering on hermits. Homeschooling kids, no eating out, no in-store grocery shopping, etc.

[URL="https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status"]


The first chart is fully vaccinated. The one to look at is the second where the count is fully vaccinated and boosted. The percentage in the second is 7. The study is dated. It doesn't include the impact of Omicron. My guess is the breakthrough cases will increase when those numbers are available. How do you think the vaccinated and boosted become breakthrough cases? The number of breakthrough cases is not a good reason to be among the unvaccinated. Several studies, I can post them if you would like, show that those vaccinated and boosted have less severe cases.


I still advocate for getting vaccinated as I think it greatly reduces the effects you'll have. But in no way is a mandate necessary and in no way do I blame or berate anyone for not wanting to get vaccinated. We aren't "beating" covid and it isn't going away. It isn't going to kill everyone and isn't the bogey man. Every doctor I've spoken to says the same thing. It's here to stay and will be a yearly booster. Everyone should make their own choices with the information we all have access to.
About mandates, What I have said is I am not in favor of mandates but it depends on how serious COVID continues to be. I have also said if one is not part of the solution they are part of the problem, it is a patriotic duty and inconsiderate of others not to be vaccinated. COVID is a health crisis and we all need to do our part to contribute to a solution. COVID may not go away and it certainly won't with about half the nation unvaccinated. As we learn more about COVID vaccines and treatments should become more effective. I choose the position of the NIH, CDC and WHO who have access to worldwide scientific input. How many doctors did you talk to? A hundred, a thousand? Were they immunologists?

I am not debating this with you bcredliner as time has proven you to be incapable. I don't usually see your posts anymore but clicked to view this one thinking you might say something of consolation or well wishes. How stupidly optimistic of me.

I apologize. I was wrong not expressing sympathy for what your family has gone through. I'm sorry and hope everyone is feeling better.

[ard]

It is so odd that people look at our current situation- in terms of infections, hospitalization and deaths- and can blithely say ‘yeah vacccines aren’t going to save us’

Lol, they are.

I dont think vaccines should be mandated.

I do STRONGLY believe that people should just man up and deal with the consequences of their decisions not to vaccinate: you can’t fly, you may lose your job, your kids can’t go to school, you can’t go inside any store, restaurant or other business.

But not ‘mandatory’. We aren’t going to force people to inject things in their body. You dont want it, that’s your right.

Also fine with unvaccinated paying more for Covid care, and if they are clogging hospitals, losing priority over those in greater need who took care of our healthcare system and did their part by getting vaccinated.

Just being personally responsible for your decisions.

[Happy]

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-isnt-publ...ycsrp_catchall

[crystalworks]

“It gets really exhausting when you see the private sector working faster than the premier public health agency of the world,” Rivera said.

I don't think that surprises... anyone.

The lack of transparency with the data is a shame. Whatever their justification for it will always leave room for doubt and mistrust. Just release the data and let the public ingest it. You then can't be blamed for trying to skew it towards a political end. The worst thing our politicians ever did for the pandemic response was not providing a unified front and just releasing data as it's received. But as usual... I don't think that surprises anyone.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I don't think that surprises... anyone.



The lack of transparency with the data is a shame. Whatever their justification for it will always leave room for doubt and mistrust. Just release the data and let the public ingest it. You then can't be blamed for trying to skew it towards a political end. The worst thing our politicians ever did for the pandemic response was not providing a unified front and just releasing data as it's received. But as usual... I don't think that surprises anyone.

Who is going to be held responsible for the lack of transparency, and the outright lies that went on throughout this pandemic?