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  #71  
Old 10-19-2021, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
In order to have a breakthrough case the individual must have been fully vaccinated. That's why using the entire population is incorrect. Sounds like your are skeptical of the CDC because it doesn't support your view. What sources do think are accurate?

All VA hospital input would still be anecdotal. That's why I am asking for your source. How many breakthrough cases have there been in the US per your source.

So your position is that the CDC is not reporting 100% of the breakthrough cases? Is that your interpretation or do you have a verifying source?

I don't agree that everything is too soon to tell. There have been 242+ million cases of COVID worldwide, 4.9+ million deaths and 219.5+ million who have recovered. The virus has been in US for at least 22 months. Statistically that is tons more than needed to draw accurate conclusions as of this date.

Believing it is more does not make it true. If you know it is more what is the source of your belief? If I have faulty information I would like to find out what the correct number is. What motivation does the CDC have to hide anything? Everything I have posted is based on the reporting of experts. It's not my or the opinion of anyone else. It is direct results from professional studies and experts on infectious diseases.

Read this Mr. Harvard;

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...9-202106032471

Should we track all breakthrough cases of COVID-19?

June 3, 2021
By Robert H. Shmerling, MD, Senior Faculty Editor, Harvard Health Publishing


The vaccines currently available in the US to prevent COVID-19 have proven remarkably safe and highly effective thus far. But, since no vaccine is perfect, we expect to see occasional infections even after full vaccination.

And we have. More than 10,000 of these so-called breakthrough cases of COVID-19 have been reported in the US. Seems like a large number, right? But keep in mind that nearly 133 million people have been vaccinated, so these breakthrough cases represent less than one in 10,000. Itís safe to assume that not all breakthrough cases are being reported, of course, but so far thatís a remarkably low failure rate!

Because the vaccines help prevent severe infections, most breakthrough cases are mild or moderate. Should we keep tracking those, or should we focus only on severe cases ó those that lead to hospitalizations, ICU stays, and, more rarely, deaths? Thatís the question the CDC recently answered by deciding to focus only on cases that require hospitalization.

What can all breakthrough cases tell us?

While that approach may not seem unreasonable, it certainly has disadvantages. Because COVID-19 is a new disease caused by a novel virus and the vaccines were only recently developed, studying breakthrough cases could tell us a lot. For example:

Are factors related to the different vaccines responsible?
One type of vaccine might be less effective than another.
Manufacturing problems might make certain lots of a vaccine less effective.
Problems with storage or thawing, or errors in vaccine dosing, might lead to vaccine failure.
The timing of the second vaccine might play a role, whether given earlier or later than recommended.
Are factors related to people who get vaccinated important?
Differences in failure rates might be based on age, gender, ethnicity, medication use, or immune function.
Apparent vaccine failure might occur due to a lack of mask-wearing, physical distancing, and/or exposure to an infected person just prior to full vaccination.
What about factors related to the virus?
Certain mutated versions of SARs-CoV-2 ó the viral variants of concern ó may be over-represented among breakthrough cases. We donít know yet, because a genetic analysis has been done in relatively few of these cases. If correct, it would suggest that available vaccines are less effective against certain variants, a discovery that could lead vaccine makers to modify them.
Besides getting a better understanding about why breakthrough cases occur, it would be helpful to figure out why some breakthrough cases are mild while others are severe. And we need to learn whether people who develop a breakthrough infection should receive a booster shot of vaccine after they recover.

A surprise move from the CDC

Considering all that could be learned from studying vaccinated people with breakthrough infections, the recent CDC announcement seems surprising. CDC experts recently decided to stop tracking all breakthrough cases, and to instead focus on those requiring hospitalization. The official reasons given for this included:

Making cases of people who became sicker the priority allows the best use of resources.
Mild cases are not burdening the healthcare system, and seem unlikely to pose a significant threat of spreading infection to others. This last point remains unproven, however; while some studies have found that the amount of virus carried by people with breakthrough infections is low, making them unlikely to be contagious, we know there have been exceptions.
All the cases tracked from January through April of 2021 show no clear pattern that could advance our understanding of why they occur.
The CDC continues to study vaccine effectiveness in certain groups of people (such as healthcare workers) who experience breakthrough infections, and is collecting all breakthrough data from certain designated states.
There could be other reasons for the CDCís decision. First, thereís the challenge of messaging around encouraging people to get vaccinated. Focusing on breakthrough cases may send a misleading impression that the vaccines arenít effective. This might complicate efforts to battle vaccine hesitancy.

Second, some experts believe that the value of tracking cases that are rare and generally mild is marginal. This may be shortsighted: after all, some people who have had COVID-19 report persistent symptoms like trouble with energy and attention, headaches, and shortness of breath. This is known as long COVID, or more formally, as post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC).

Third, it may be too hard to get reliable data from health departments or doctors all over the country. Until we have a national registry of all cases, and every person gets regular testing after vaccination, we may never get a good sense of how common breakthrough cases are ó or why they happen.

The bottom line

Because the CDC seems uniquely qualified for the task, it's disappointing theyíre not tracking all breakthrough cases. But itís worth noting that the CDC isnít the only option: the NIH, academic medical centers, state and regional health departments, private companies, and a variety of grant funders, as well as researchers in other countries, can decide to support efforts to track breakthrough cases.
In days, weeks, or even months to come, itís possible the CDC will reverse its decision and resume tracking all breakthrough cases. Regardless of how we shine a light on all breakthrough cases, it would seem wise to pay more, not less, attention to them.


I donít know where you are getting you numbers, but you better fact check your experts. And this was back when vaccinations were at 133 million.
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  #72  
Old 10-19-2021, 08:28 PM
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I'll take Covid in Floriduh for $100...or "Is DeSantis toast?"

And redliner, that report was written a month after the change in surveillance, and about a month and a half prior to the delta outbreak that caused many more covid vaccine breakthroughs. So itís a fact, the reporting is off.

940 is incorrect.
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  #73  
Old 10-19-2021, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
If you are taking about me, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am only addressing inaccurate information.
No, I am not talking about you. But, you may need to address inaccurate information a bit more thoroughly. 1 out 10,000 is not 4 out of 1,000,000. And now you know the reporting is not being reported at a 100%.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Just wondering, why do you defy science? Does that mean you don't follow the guidelines and no one in your family has been vaccinated? Sounds like you are proud of not following the science. Is that in general or just as it relates to the virus?
Too many questions man! All that matters is I am still alive, right? Side note: itís amazing what you can learn when you are pushed way out of your comfort zone. And when near death how your perspective can change on what is really important in life.



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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
If COVID is eradicated, per experts, it will be two more years or longer. IMO the US will be bringing up the rear because so many will not follow the guidelines and/or get vaccinated. As long as that is the case the virus can mutate and likely become more deadly just as the Delta variant has been.

Iíll be patiently waiting for this thing to pass to the best of my ability.
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  #74  
Old 10-19-2021, 08:51 PM
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Too much data intake in here! I say we all just inject some bleach and call it a day...
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  #75  
Old 10-20-2021, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Doctors evaluate the severity of symptoms to determine if the the individual meets the medical admission criteria. It is also necessary for insurance purposes. There is no reason to use beds for individuals that can be adequately treated otherwise.
I'm not talking about admission to the hospital!

I'm talking about how (as I said) giving medication for the symptoms like for cough, nebulizers, anti-pyritics just like doctors do when you go in with flu symptoms.

With covid19 they send you home to quarantine until you're better or so sick you have to be admitted.

Why?

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  #76  
Old 10-20-2021, 12:00 PM
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I'm not talking about admission to the hospital!

I'm talking about how (as I said) giving medication for the symptoms like for cough, nebulizers, anti-pyritics just like doctors do when you go in with flu symptoms.

With covid19 they send you home to quarantine until you're better or so sick you have to be admitted.

Why?
As with flu, I'm guessing they suggest OTC medications/vitamins to try to control symptoms. Just guessing though. I've never been prescribed anything for a flu that I can remember.

Now, I was given antibiotics after a flu resulted in pneumonia that I walked around with for a year. They thought I would have permanent lung damage from that one, but last set of X rays a few years later showed recovery.

Happy, you have actual experience with this aspect, before you were admitted, did the docs prescribe anything? Were you admitted right away? Did they do anything different the second time vs. the first? If too personal, no worries, just trying to get data. I have some family that had it and recovered, but they were mild cases that presented just like flu.
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  #77  
Old 10-20-2021, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
As with flu, I'm guessing they suggest OTC medications/vitamins to try to control symptoms. Just guessing though. I've never been prescribed anything for a flu that I can remember.

Now, I was given antibiotics after a flu resulted in pneumonia that I walked around with for a year. They thought I would have permanent lung damage from that one, but last set of X rays a few years later showed recovery.

Happy, you have actual experience with this aspect, before you were admitted, did the docs prescribe anything? Were you admitted right away? Did they do anything different the second time vs. the first? If too personal, no worries, just trying to get data. I have some family that had it and recovered, but they were mild cases that presented just like flu.
Man, I'm glad to hear there was no permanent damage. Not the case for me.
Due to a training training accident when I was enlisted, my lungs were severely impacted by pneumonia, and permanently damaged.

The only prescriptions I know of for covid are, cough/mucus suppression, aerosol inhalers, anti-inflammatories, and steroids. What cocktail an individual receives is completely up to the physician. Steroid type, etc. its all up to them. And, of course oxygen if necessary.

I personally did not go to the hospital immediately. I'm pretty stubborn in certain situations, going to the hospital being one of them.

The first time I got it, it was a 3-4 day thing. When it hit, I felt like I fell off of a bike or something. Day one was like WOW! NOTHING like a cold or flu. I couldn't even stand up, and the fevers were vicious, slight loss of smell, but no cough really or shortness of breath. By day 3, I was up moving around, and by day 4 feeling better. I never went to the hospital.

The second time, was hell on earth. I was having mild fevers for about 3 weeks, 100.9, and I felt slightly off. Its hot here in Texas, so most of the time I though I was just hot from everyday duties around the house, and didn't really think much about it. About the middle of the third week, my taste and smell started acting up, and by the end of the week the "S" hit the fan. When I totally lost my taste and smell, is when the symptoms hit hard! Again, NOTHING like the flu, covid is deadly. I could taste and smell, but it was broken. It was awful! Taste, things tasted horrible. Smell, it was like putting my nose directly into a bottle of bleach. All I smelt for about ten days, was the overpowering aroma of chlorine. This time when the body aches hit, it was like getting hit by a car (I have been hit before). The pain was at the same level when I got hit. So.. At this point I feel like crap, but, I'm just weathering the storm. Well, then the organ failure started. I was sweating like a roasted pig, losing extreme amounts of water, combined with TOTAL digestive failure. I would drink water and it would pass through in minutes. On the evening it was at it worst, I was prepared to pass on. I gave my wife final instructions, prepared for bed, and told my Father in Heaven if it is your will let it be done. Well... The next morning I awoke, and from that point I was on the mend.

The only reason I chose to be admitted to the VA, was because my wife wanted to go for herself. She was hit hard a little over a week and a half from my worst day, so I decided to get admitted with her. I was still feeling like crap, but no where near death, my healing had already begun. They ran a bunch of tests on me. Everything came back normal, they prescribed me ibuprofen, and discharged me.
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  #78  
Old 10-20-2021, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
I'm not talking about admission to the hospital!

I'm talking about how (as I said) giving medication for the symptoms like for cough, nebulizers, anti-pyritics just like doctors do when you go in with flu symptoms.

With covid19 they send you home to quarantine until you're better or so sick you have to be admitted.

Why?

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I discussed COVID with my doctor a long time ago and she advised me to get in there as soon as I had any symptoms so she could treat it. I didn't ask what the treatment would be. She spent most of the discussion making sure I was aware and following all of the preventative guidelines.
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
I discussed COVID with my doctor a long time ago and she advised me to get in there as soon as I had any symptoms so she could treat it. I didn't ask what the treatment would be. She spent most of the discussion making sure I was aware and following all of the preventative guidelines.


+10000. Vaccinated, or not, this is the best advice one can follow.

The way they treat it is constantly evolving, one physician told me. But the one thing that has been consistent throughout this pandemic, is making sure you get in right away!
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:34 AM
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Looks like the CDC is busy these days. Add insult to injury, the onions are possibly going to makes us sick as well. And, Texas has the most reported cases. ANDÖ Our family consumes about 5 whole onions a week.

Can I please catch a break with all these illnesses.?! I am not even over my long haul symptoms. Lord Jesus.

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-iden...ycsrp_catchall

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/s...001425317.html
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