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  #11  
Old 07-01-2022, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
While I am not directing this to you....ultimately, it is unfortunate, but it is my opinion that it is pointless attempting to have a civil discussion or even a debate with some people in this forum who are unable to clearly articulate one or more valid points, or stoop to beligerent and unfounded personal accusations.... But alas, that is the sad reality of what most social media has devolved into and Xoutpost is not imune to it....

C’man cut grab ass man! Your experienced in posting things that are offensive. Remember how many years we’ve spent together on this forum. Don’t get all brand new now with, “the sad reality of what most social media has devolved into”.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:42 PM
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This escalated quickly... will have to read the previous page to catch up.

In the meantime. My opinion on this is simple. Freedom of choice. Making abortions illegal takes away a choice. It's much more conservative (excepting religion, sorry Happy) to have abortions be a legal option. We don't have to agree with someone's choice, but we should, respect it. Again, excepting religious beliefs.

If the CPS and adoption system were in any way capable of handling all the unwanted babies of the world I'd be all for banning abortion. But that is not the case.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
This escalated quickly... will have to read the previous page to catch up.
Riiight…. LoL…

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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
In the meantime. My opinion on this is simple. Freedom of choice. Making abortions illegal takes away a choice. It's much more conservative (excepting religion, sorry Happy) to have abortions be a legal option. We don't have to agree with someone's choice, but we should, respect it. Again, excepting religious beliefs.
No apologies needed.

Everyone is entitled to their own choice. I am in no position to judge a Brother or Sister.

For now, the states will individually decide the laws regarding procedures that will terminate human life.

I just found out today, at close to 50 years old, that I will be a DaD for the fifth time in my life. Termination is the last thing on my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
If the CPS and adoption system were in any way capable of handling all the unwanted babies of the world I'd be all for banning abortion. But that is not the case.
My wife once told me that, accepting a child that is not biologically ours, would be a blessing. I get it, but I don’t think I totally understand it. One thing is for sure, that every child in this world deserves Love!

If a day comes, that I will be tasked to father a foster child. I ask that, you pray for me, wish me good luck, or give good thoughts to my situation. Because, it is one of those things that has been on my mind for many years.

I hope I am capable, if I am required to perform this responsibility.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2022, 07:47 AM
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Happy:

I have never said, nor have I implied that “Christians and Republicans should cease to exist”, nor do I propose “canceling” them. I do have an issue as to how both that religion and political party have evolved so radically in our country over the past 40-50 years.

As a 50-something male, you certainly seem to be rather confused, if not selective in your interpretation of Christianity. You bizarrely state: “Religion is a farce, The Christ is a Force, not a religion…” That is a real head-scratcher of a statement! Also, I find that statement very surprising coming from you, based on what you have previously written about your interpretation of Christianity.

I do not believe that religion is a farce. Simply put, I understand and believe religion(s) to be a shared social and cultural belief system, based on faith, establishing moral and ethical behavior for humanity, as well as an attempt to explain the challenging practical, spiritual and transcendental questions of how and why our world was created and subsequent world views including social behavior.

As per your inferences regarding my original post, there is an interesting link to women in Christianity. The Christian Bible has numerous authors and interpretations starting many years after the death of Jesus Christ, let alone the extreme differences between the Old Testament vs. the New Testament. I belive that today's Christian Bible is the interpretation of many men, evolved over many years, as to the teachings of the prophet Jesus Christ. I do not belive in the absolute literal belief in what it says, let alone it being "the word of God". It was written by men and in many ways is serving their intended purpose. You may or may not be aware that in the earliest practices of Christianity that women were truly considered the equal of men. It was not until much later on, under the Catholic church’s evolution of establishing their doctrine that they subjugated women to be more subservient to men. In Europe and South America, the history of Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular, has been to impose a control over the poor, uneducated masses and in its most fundamental distillation, the power of men over women.

Stepping back, I do agree with the philosophical belief of our founding fathers that when they wrote the U.S. Constitution, followed by the Bill of Rights, and while certainly influenced by their Christian heritage coming from England, they felt strongly in the concept of the separation of Church and State. We know that the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution forbids the establishment of religion, (i.e. either a state or national religion), hence known as “the establishment clause”. This means that no government agency, including public schools, can impose or promote a religious doctrine, including creationism.

Therefore, I respect that you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, as do I. The main problem that I have with the 6 right-wing Justices on the U.S. Supreme Court is that I do not want them, (or you or anyone else…), to force and impose their or your religious beliefs on me.
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Last edited by AVB-AMG; 07-02-2022 at 09:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2022, 08:08 AM
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Happy:

From your posts, it sounds as if you are a fundamentalist or Evangelical Christian. I have been absent from this forum for a bit, so I checked out some our previous exchanges on other thread topics and now remember that is the case. I will repeat myself to you, but for the benefit of some others who have not read those earlier threads, here is some personal history to help understand where I am coming from.

My mother was raised Catholic and my father was raised Lutheran and when they married, they decided to meet halfway in religious doctrine and compromise and became Episcopalians. For them, as Christians, they clearly did not have absolute devotion to a particular denomination branch of Christianity. I was baptized, raised, educated and confirmed as an Episcopalian.

I did not have that exposure to in-depth religious education in high school and foolishly, elected not to take any religious history courses in college, for which I deeply regret with 20/20 hindsight. So, I have made up for it by reading and listening to audio books on different religions to learn about them. I strongly believe that in this day and age especially, with so much of the strife in the world predicated by age old religious beliefs, prejudices and disputes, it is vital that America’s youth, (and adults), proactively learn and gain a basic accurate knowledge and understanding of the world’s religions and their associated beliefs, values, practices, traditions and as importantly, their influence on individuals, communities, societies and cultures.

Once students have had this education and can then reflect upon the experiences and the mysteries of life and the various contributions, (both positive and negative), that religion has played throughout history up to present day, then they hopefully will appreciate what is different and what is the same about all of us. Then and only then, will they be in an ideal position to consider and form their own feelings, opinions regarding religion and decide what they believe.

So as a student of history, I have had growing doubts along with many valid suspicions of all the traditional established formal religions. We know that throughout history, more blood has been shed in the name of religion or God. I appreciate the general benevolent and charitable aspects of these religions, but do not agree with many of their arbitrary dogmatic rules that they preach for their followers to abide by. Years ago, I gave up attending, let alone contributing money to the Episcopal church. Instead, I try to live a moral and ethical life and have chosen to contribute either cash or material items such as clothing, to charities that I believe truly help other people, where most of my donation actually goes towards their stated cause and not to support or perpetuate their bureaucracy, (i.e. my preferred charities include our regional food bank and The American Red Cross, etc.).

As a result of my ongoing quest to explore different religions, cultures and being exposed to different ideas, and thoughtfully considering them, I would say that spiritually, I am currently more closely aligned with the natural beliefs of Deism. FYI - some of America's founding fathers were said to be deists or at the very least, had deist leanings, and included Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington Essentially, the belief in reason and nature leading to the acceptance and existence of a supreme being, that I choose to refer to as God, who was the creator, who got everything started, but does not intervene after that, does not answer prayers and is indifferent. I find that I am more sympathetic to the deist beliefs than all of the rules and teachings of the other traditional, main line religions of including Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism. I am intrigued by some of the thoughtful teachings of Buddhism but need to learn more about it before I can form an opinion about it. I also accept the scientific understanding of the evolution of life and also believe that in my lifetime that I (we), will never know the answers to all of life's larger questions. I would also be comfortable being referred to as a rational secular humanist who has an ongoing urge to continue my education, learning new things, before I form my opinion.

I do not profess to have all the answers and admit that I am not always correct, but the fundamental belief and goal that I have is: to respect others’ beliefs, even when I disagree with them. We all can live peacefully together as long as you do not force your religious beliefs on me and others.
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2022, 08:11 AM
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This escalated quickly... will have to read the previous page to catch up.

In the meantime. My opinion on this is simple. Freedom of choice. Making abortions illegal takes away a choice. It's much more conservative (excepting religion, sorry Happy) to have abortions be a legal option. We don't have to agree with someone's choice, but we should, respect it. Again, excepting religious beliefs.
crystalworks:
I agree with you.....
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
I just found out today, at close to 50 years old, that I will be a DaD for the fifth time in my life. Termination is the last thing on my mind.
Congrats! Realize, I don't know your circumstances but I hope congratulations are in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
My wife once told me that, accepting a child that is not biologically ours, would be a blessing. I get it, but I don’t think I totally understand it. One thing is for sure, that every child in this world deserves Love!

If a day comes, that I will be tasked to father a foster child. I ask that, you pray for me, wish me good luck, or give good thoughts to my situation. Because, it is one of those things that has been on my mind for many years.

I hope I am capable, if I am required to perform this responsibility.
Agree! Wish it were possible.

My BiL and his wife have been going through the adoption process now for about 3 years. It's a mess. They've lost 3 kids so far (after having them in the home in 2 cases)... They are stronger than I ever could be to even adopt, let alone keep at it after so much heart break.

^Because of stories like that and failures of CPS to protect children is why I support abortion rights. Unwanted babies aren't good for the baby, the parents, or our society. The majority of the offenders might be "hoe bags," "cumdumpsters," or shitty men who produce those children, but the sad fact remains, it's the child who pays the price in a majority of cases.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2022, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
Happy:

I have never said, nor have I implied that “Christians and Republicans should cease to exist”, nor do I propose “canceling” them. I do have an issue as to how both that religion and political party have evolved so radically in our country over the past 40-50 years.

As a 50-something male, you certainly seem to be rather confused, if not selective in your interpretation of Christianity. You bizarrely state: “Religion is a farce, The Christ is a Force, not a religion…” That is a real head-scratcher of a statement! Also, I find that statement very surprising coming from you, based on what you have previously written about your interpretation of Christianity.

I do not believe that religion is a farce. Simply put, I understand and believe religion(s) to be a shared social and cultural belief system, based on faith, establishing moral and ethical behavior for humanity, as well as an attempt to explain the challenging practical, spiritual and transcendental questions of how and why our world was created and subsequent world views including social behavior.

As per your inferences regarding my original post, there is an interesting link to women in Christianity. The Christian Bible has numerous authors and interpretations starting many years after the death of Jesus Christ, let alone the extreme differences between the Old Testament vs. the New Testament. I belive that today's Christian Bible is the interpretation of many men, evolved over many years, as to the teachings of the prophet Jesus Christ. I do not belive in the absolute literal belief in what it says, let alone it being "the word of God". It was written by men and in many ways is serving their intended purpose. You may or may not be aware that in the earliest practices of Christianity that women were truly considered the equal of men. It was not until much later on, under the Catholic church’s evolution of establishing their doctrine that they subjugated women to be more subservient to men. In Europe and South America, the history of Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular, has been to impose a control over the poor, uneducated masses and in its most fundamental distillation, the power of men over women.

Stepping back, I do agree with the philosophical belief of our founding fathers that when they wrote the U.S. Constitution, followed by the Bill of Rights, and while certainly influenced by their Christian heritage coming from England, they felt strongly in the concept of the separation of Church and State. We know that the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution forbids the establishment of religion, (i.e. either a state or national religion), hence known as “the establishment clause”. This means that no government agency, including public schools, can impose or promote a religious doctrine, including creationism.

Therefore, I respect that you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe, as do I. The main problem that I have with the 6 right-wing Justices on the U.S. Supreme Court is that I do not want them, (or you or anyone else…), to force and impose their or your religious beliefs on me.
Correct, you did not outright state that, but it was indeed a blanket statement. You are at will to feel any way you want, about any party or parties. I in no way, am in a position to impose my will or belief upon you. To each man and women their own free choice. But, as bcredliner has stated, there are laws, and we have to follow them.

The word religion was first used in the 1200s AD. Long after The Christ, not a prophet Yeshua was born, and began teaching. The concept of religion was formed during the 16th and 17th centuries. Again, long after The Christ. So, you see the word religion has nothing to do with the original teachings of The Christ Yeshua. Obviously, the Christians saw it coming, because between 1517-1648 there was the Protestant Reformation.

So yes, religion is a farce today. It started as a simple word, to describe something that is sacred, long after The Christ walked this earth. Just look as some of the religious organizations these days. Church is when 2 or more from the body of Christ come together in the name of Yeshua, and fellowship, period. You don't need doctrines, humongous cathedrals, rituals, bright lights, smoke and fog machines. Just a few from the body coming together in Jesus name with a Bible in hand to learn how to live right.

The word is the Son of God. So, the Word of God is simply referencing divine messages from the Son, that men and women (man) received, and then documented. It appears, you think they wrote their own testimonies. But they are not their own personal testimonies, they were divine messages entrusted to the writer to document. However, the writer generally had a divine experience. It appears that you are not a Christian believer. And that's ok, but you cannot go around calling Christians hacks, when you have zero personal knowledge of their lifelong struggles. But again, it appears for you that this behavior is acceptable.

Remember what Jesus taught about governments. "Give to _____, what belongs to _____. And by no means did he teach us to go and shove it down someone's throat either. So, you can agree or disagree with the founders of this great and amazing country. Thats your choice, your free will. That is why I feel pertaining to the ruling, that the court giving the freedom back to the states is the right thing to do. This way the people living in the individual states don't feel the way you do, when something is forced upon you. If the majority of the people feel a certain way, and you're in the minority you still have choices. One being you can leave a state that does not share your belief.

I have in no way forced or imposed my belief upon you. I've only shared a small tidbit of it. But some of your posts are pretty forceful ideations. But again, you have personal freewill. For me, I will follow the teachings from the Word of God.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2022, 03:20 PM
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This escalated quickly... will have to read the previous page to catch up.

In the meantime. My opinion on this is simple. Freedom of choice. Making abortions illegal takes away a choice. It's much more conservative (excepting religion, sorry Happy) to have abortions be a legal option. We don't have to agree with someone's choice, but we should, respect it. Again, excepting religious beliefs.

If the CPS and adoption system were in any way capable of handling all the unwanted babies of the world I'd be all for banning abortion. But that is not the case.
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Old 07-02-2022, 04:37 PM
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Happy:

From your posts, it sounds as if you are a fundamentalist or Evangelical Christian. I have been absent from this forum for a bit, so I checked out some our previous exchanges on other thread topics and now remember that is the case. I will repeat myself to you, but for the benefit of some others who have not read those earlier threads, here is some personal history to help understand where I am coming from.

My mother was raised Catholic and my father was raised Lutheran and when they married, they decided to meet halfway in religious doctrine and compromise and became Episcopalians. For them, as Christians, they clearly did not have absolute devotion to a particular denomination branch of Christianity. I was baptized, raised, educated and confirmed as an Episcopalian.

I did not have that exposure to in-depth religious education in high school and foolishly, elected not to take any religious history courses in college, for which I deeply regret with 20/20 hindsight. So, I have made up for it by reading and listening to audio books on different religions to learn about them. I strongly believe that in this day and age especially, with so much of the strife in the world predicated by age old religious beliefs, prejudices and disputes, it is vital that America’s youth, (and adults), proactively learn and gain a basic accurate knowledge and understanding of the world’s religions and their associated beliefs, values, practices, traditions and as importantly, their influence on individuals, communities, societies and cultures.

Once students have had this education and can then reflect upon the experiences and the mysteries of life and the various contributions, (both positive and negative), that religion has played throughout history up to present day, then they hopefully will appreciate what is different and what is the same about all of us. Then and only then, will they be in an ideal position to consider and form their own feelings, opinions regarding religion and decide what they believe.

So as a student of history, I have had growing doubts along with many valid suspicions of all the traditional established formal religions. We know that throughout history, more blood has been shed in the name of religion or God. I appreciate the general benevolent and charitable aspects of these religions, but do not agree with many of their arbitrary dogmatic rules that they preach for their followers to abide by. Years ago, I gave up attending, let alone contributing money to the Episcopal church. Instead, I try to live a moral and ethical life and have chosen to contribute either cash or material items such as clothing, to charities that I believe truly help other people, where most of my donation actually goes towards their stated cause and not to support or perpetuate their bureaucracy, (i.e. my preferred charities include our regional food bank and The American Red Cross, etc.).

As a result of my ongoing quest to explore different religions, cultures and being exposed to different ideas, and thoughtfully considering them, I would say that spiritually, I am currently more closely aligned with the natural beliefs of Deism. FYI - some of America's founding fathers were said to be deists or at the very least, had deist leanings, and included Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington Essentially, the belief in reason and nature leading to the acceptance and existence of a supreme being, that I choose to refer to as God, who was the creator, who got everything started, but does not intervene after that, does not answer prayers and is indifferent. I find that I am more sympathetic to the deist beliefs than all of the rules and teachings of the other traditional, main line religions of including Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism. I am intrigued by some of the thoughtful teachings of Buddhism but need to learn more about it before I can form an opinion about it. I also accept the scientific understanding of the evolution of life and also believe that in my lifetime that I (we), will never know the answers to all of life's larger questions. I would also be comfortable being referred to as a rational secular humanist who has an ongoing urge to continue my education, learning new things, before I form my opinion.

I do not profess to have all the answers and admit that I am not always correct, but the fundamental belief and goal that I have is: to respect others’ beliefs, even when I disagree with them. We all can live peacefully together as long as you do not force your religious beliefs on me and others.
I am not a fundamentalist. I am an orthodox nondenominated Christian.

I would agree that studying past a level higher than high school would be highly beneficial. The documentations from the past at least 4000 years of in-depth recorded history would be very beneficial for most if not all people.

Students once educated, would definitely be in a stronger position to figure out their own personal beliefs.

So that's the thing with religion, it's been polluted. What was once a simple word to describe something sacred, has now been formed into what feels like in certain circumstances a cult. Thats definitely not what The Christ intended. The New Testament Gospels actually teach the contrary. I'm sure there are still a few good churches out there, although it feels like their becoming fewer and fewer as the days go on. When you say you gave up attending, did you also give up on being a Christian? Living ethically and morally sound, as well as giving to others is the primary teaching of Jesus. According to my interpretation of the Old and New Testament's, your testimony in the paragraph reveals satan's scheme. Pollute the body of Christ, disassemble it, and ultimately try and destroy it. I can honestly say I am seeing it in real time. But on the bright side, this is nothing new to the Father. The Lord only knows how long it's been going on for, so I agree it takes quite a bit of faith to hang in there.

Christianity is not a religion. It simply means Christ like. A Christian is some who adopts the behaviors, teachings, and good will of the Christ Jesus as their own. Essentially displaying these traits to other men and women. Buildings don't teach us anything, they house. What is being taught in a particular house may not in fact be right with the Christ's teachings. It's very important to study the Bible on your own. Otherwise, you may fall victim to schemes. It isn't easy being a Christian, that's for sure. The path is very narrow, not all that proclaim to be a Christian will make it. There are definitely wolves in sheep's clothing out there as well. Buddha prophesized the Christ. Alot of people aren't even aware of this. This is why it is extremely important to make sure the younger generations get properly educated. I wish our country would focus more on that, than some of the other nonsense they focus on. I use science as well. Quite often actually, just not in conflict with the Bible's teachings.

I agree, I don't think we'll ever have ALL the answers. I am not always correct either, and yes, we should strive to respect one another. Peace is what I pray for on this earth everyday. And for me personally, it goes against my core belief, to force anything on anybody. Only suggestions AVB-AMG, only suggestions, your consideration is completely your own responsibility.
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