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  #11  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFive3.0
They've been fighting for thousands of years. What makes you think they can find peace amongst each other today?

I hope Obama doesnt go in there and try to intervene...its thier war, let them fight it. just my 2 cents.
I am sick of other countries interjecting their views on the whole conflict and what could be done I was just involved in an argument with an english guy about the whole conflict he was stating how Israel has committed crimes against humanity etc. my response was look at what your country has done for over 600 years. He stated that maybe the Royal Navy should go blockade Israel in which I responded " we have airports we'll be fine and if that did occur, who would have more military force off the coast of Israel "
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:49 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WKGVk-o18I
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pski215
and are still holding Galid Shalit.
How many Palestinean soldiers are being held by Israel? Last I read, I think the number was around 11,000. But Isreali media keeps bringing up this issue of the one soldier being held by Hamas.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:07 PM
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they are being treated alot more humanely than the red cross reports Galid shalit being treated.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:11 PM
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Overall I think you missed the point of my earlier post. Nowhere did I say that Isreal is the bad guy in all of this. What I said is that their method of dealing with this is not a method that is going to achieve their desired result. It is only going to make things worse. As a Jew I only want what is best for Israel. But I can tell you that this is certainly not a good course of action for them. While the desire for "revenge" may be feeding their decision making on this, they need to think more logically.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:14 PM
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For those of you reading this and are not entirely familiar with the Middle East conflict, please allow me to explain exactly what Eric is advocating.

1) That East Jerusalem be turned over to the Palestinians.
- a) East Jerusalem includes areas like "Wailing Wall" and "Temple Mount" It is an area that is important to all three, Christianity, Muslim and Jewish religions. In effect, making the holiest site for Judaism controlled by Hamas or organizations like the PLO.. Possibly even one day Al Quaeda or the Taliban.
-- That would be like turning over Mecca to a bunch Christian fundamental hillbillies from the south who hate Muslims.

2) The area of East Jerusalem was obtained from Jordan, not the Palestinians in Gaza or the Lebanese (who kidnapped Israeli soldiers). And Israel has a peace agreement with Jordan. So it would be giving land to people to whom the land never belonged. And the Muslims in Jerusalem were all offered Israeli citizenship with the condition that they recognize the Jewish state and make Israel their only citizenship.

3) Israel occupied these territories after they were attacked by all their neighboring countries. Egypt and Jordan signed a peace treaty cause they got their asses kicked and wanted US economic assistance.

4) Egypt and Jordan don't attack Israel because, two times, they got their asses kicked, lost land, etc. But they still hate the Jews.


For those of you not familiar with Israels landscape let me post a picture.



Do you see the West Bank, right in the center of the map. Well, the border of the West Bank to the Mediterranean Sea is approximately 12 miles (I think).
One of the reasons Israel doesn't want to give up the West Bank is because of how easily Israel could militarily be split in half by aggressors. Basically all they would need to do is control 12 miles and Israel is cut in two, making Israel have to fight in a two front war.

also:

From 1948-67, when Syria controlled the Golan Heights, it used the area as a military stronghold from which its troops randomly sniped at Israeli civilians in the Huleh Valley below, forcing children living on kibbutzim to sleep in bomb shelters. In addition, many roads in northern Israel could be crossed only after probing by mine-detection vehicles. In late 1966, a youth was blown to pieces by a mine while playing football near the Lebanon border. In some cases, attacks were carried out by Yasir Arafat's Fatah, which Syria allowed to operate from its territory.

Israel's options for countering the Syrian attacks were constrained by the geography of the Heights. "Counterbattery fires were limited by the lack of observation from the Huleh Valley; air attacks were degraded by well-dug-in Syrian positions with strong overhead cover, and a ground attack against the positions...would require major forces with the attendant risks of heavy casualties and severe political repercussions," U.S. Army Col. (Ret.) Irving Heymont observed.

Israel repeatedly, and unsuccessfully, protested the Syrian bombardments to the UN Mixed Armistice Commission, which was charged with policing the cease-fire. For example, Israel went to the UN in October 1966 to demand a halt to the Fatah attacks. The response from Damascus was defiant. "It is not our duty to stop them, but to encourage and strengthen them," the Syrian ambassador responded. Nothing was done to stop Syria's aggression. A mild Security Council resolution expressing "regret" for such incidents was vetoed by the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, Israel was condemned by the UN when it retaliated. "As far as the Security Council was officially concerned," historian Netanel Lorch wrote, "there was an open season for killing Israelis on their own territory."

After the Six-Day War began, the Syrian air force attempted to bomb oil refineries in Haifa. While Israel was fighting in the Sinai and West Bank, Syrian artillery bombarded Israeli forces in the eastern Galilee, and armored units fired on villages in the Huleh Valley below the Golan Heights.

On June 9, 1967, Israel moved against Syrian forces on the Golan. By late afternoon, June 10, Israel was in complete control of the plateau. Israel's seizure of the strategic heights occurred only after 19 years of provocation from Syria, and after unsuccessful efforts to get the international community to act against the aggressors.


So essentially, Eric wants to give strategic, military land to it's enemies, so it can continue attacking Israel from lands that Israel conquered when it was last attacked.

And he wants to give Israel's holiest Jewish sites to be controlled by terrorists who don't just hate Israelis but all JEWS.
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:14 PM
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Actually it is a great course of action, the number of rockets being fired has dramatically dropped.
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:17 PM
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great post b-line.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:24 PM
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Oh but wait, Eric thinks that the entire reason for war and terrorism in the Middle East is because of Israels occupation of Gaza and West Bank and Jerusalem..

Cause there were never Arab attacks on Jews in the Middle East before the occupation

The first arab sponsored terrorist attack upon Jews occurred in 1920, long before the establishment of Israel and long before there were any so-called palestinians. In 1929 arab mobs massacred over 100 Jews, 67 of them in 1929 Hebron massacre alone, an ancient community where Jews lived among arabs peacefully for centuries. Many of the corpses were mutilated by arabs.
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  #20  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Line
Israel occupied these territories after they were attacked by all their neighboring countries.
I've never seen a bigger lie than this sentence. Are you just making this stuff up or is there a book that you copied this from?

Israel started the 6-day war in 1967 with an huge unprovoked air assult on Egypt which resulted in over 10,000 Egyptian deaths. And yes, after doing this, they were indeed attacked. They even attacked a US naval ship during this war and killed over 170 Americans.
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