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  #291  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Considering what other countries and some areas in our country that implemented the recommended guidelines and their resulting success, it seems clear that we would have COVID-19 under control by now if we had had a Federal mandate to follow the guidelines across the country. I think a Federal mandate is still necessary and it should include severe enough penalties to act as an effective deterrent for those that choose not to cooperate for whatever reason.

I don't agree that those having underlining conditions should be eliminated from the Covid-19 death count. It doesn't mean they were already terminal. It means they are more likely to die if infected. For example, they could have diabetes or cancer and be doing fine. They might have lived another 30 years with either disease. They get Covid-19 and die. Why isn't the cause of death the virus?

The leaders of a country, just as in a business, are responsible for the actions taken by those they manage. They don't get to shift the blame to anyone else. It doesn't matter what Pelosi or anyone else does. In this cause, Trump was directly involved in the mismanagement. It wasn't the fault of anyone else in his administration though they violated their oath of office by not speaking up. He personally downplayed the recommendations of the scientists and still is. He puts his support for defiance of the guidelines on display at televised rallies for all to see. At best that is dereliction of duty, a violation of his oath of office. In a business, certainly a corporation, he would have been fired long ago.

I agree that the House, Senate and President don't work together. That is also part of the job of a President to see that they do.

It requires a two thirds vote by House and Senate to override a veto by the President. Historically that has happened less than ten percent of the time. As it is now that will never happen an either side of the isle. That leaves no possibility of a course correction. And since most votes are party line driven, voting out incumbents isn't going to become a priority. I think term limits should be applied to the house and senate but I can't see those in office in favor of doing so, even suggesting consideration.

IMO, the best we can hope for is that at some point the House and Senate have a significant majority of the same party as the president. Bi-partisan support is at least two terms away and only with forced mending of the major fences separating the parties. Right now they are calling each other stupid, crazy or worse. That only makes things worse. Those are fighting words and working very well.

Less than 45% of eligible Americans vote. Perhaps 1 or 2 here will decide voting is important. If another 10% start voting, or whatever critical mass is, major changes are very possible.
I enjoy the extraordinary amounts of freedom in this country. But I'm also aware sometimes you just got to take one for the team.

This saying originated here. It's said for a reason. Sometimes, you just have to delay a few of your personal freedoms temporarily for the greater good of your fellow citizens.

Perhaps it really is as simple as that. Take one for the team and follow the mandates, or suffer the consequences, like BC said.

Like I pointed out before, our seat belt campaign were very successful because we combined uniform messaging across the board, and penalized (slightly) those who refused to put it on.

Following the mandate should not be any more different than the seat belt campaigns. They are both designed to save lives.

As for the clogged up legislative branch of our government, perhaps a time will come when enough public voices push through to demand real change of our antiquated house and senate. Term limit sounds better and better each day.
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Last edited by Maruzo; 09-14-2020 at 10:55 PM.
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  #292  
Old 09-15-2020, 12:35 PM
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I agree the pandemic has been one of the catalysts. The pandemic guidelines got many folks fired up about infringing on their freedom and being quarantined or out of work caused widespread anger and frustration.

As we all know racial injustice has been present since are beginnings. There has been an ebb and flow of the magnitude, visibility and intensity but it was much broader and worse than today. I think black lives matter demonstrations and police brutality against black Americans poked the racial injustice bear this time.

I think the worldwide reach of social media, cell phone cameras and videos are an important catalyst. Racial issues, demonstrations, looting, police violence etc. are in our faces like never before. The magnitude of the problems are more visible. It wasn't long ago that our source for information was limited to TV news, newspapers and magazines.

I think another important catalyst is our President. In many ways he sets the tone of what issues he thinks should be focused on and what behavior is appropriate by how he addresses those issues. He has exasperated divisiveness and made it in vogue to address these issues with more aggressive language and actions.

Back to the pandemic. We can control the pandemic. Wear a mask, social distance, avoid crowds and wash your hands even if it is not mandated. It's not for you but for others.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 09-15-2020 at 12:50 PM.
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  #293  
Old 09-15-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Like when Pelosi told everyone during the last week of February to go to Chinatown and celebrate. No social distancing, or masks were involved then.

Like when Biden called Trump a racist for limiting travel.



Like when Pelosi told everyone during the last week of February to go to Chinatown and celebrate. No social distancing, or masks were involved then.

Like when Biden called Trump a racist for limiting travel.

Have you ever been to San Francisco? It’s not a clean city. I was born and raised in San Francisco Bay Area.

Pelosi’s streets are full of filth. People urinating and defecating on the sidewalks, smoking crack, shooting dope, having sex, and Jesus knows what else.

This is where she said we need to go and celebrate. Again, with no masks or social distancing, late February.



Was I part of the problem when I was defending the constitution for you, all while taking the chance of losing my life, FOR YOU!?
Pelosi and Biden are influential but not in charge. What is happening in Pelosi's district has no bearing on this issue. As far as the Chinatown visit- https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/tr...and-chinatown/

Biden did call Trump a racist this past July. As it relates to the travel ban, he did state that calling the virus the China virus was xenophobia in February but that is different than a racist.

Thank you for your service. No, you weren't part of the problem when you were defending the constitution even if you weren't voting then. I didn't say or imply that. I said if you don't vote you are part of the problem. You are accepting the problems we are discussing. That is not doing your part to change what you think is wrong. We need to stand up for what we believe is right. Voting is the key way we do so.

I have been to San Francisco and many many other cities both here and around the world. There are places all around the world with the same problems. If she wasn't working to correct the problem I would be critical as well but that is not the case. Bear in mind she can't order the leadership of San Francisco to do more. Pelosi certainly has influence but she can't force the state or Fed. to dedicate more funds to fix the problem. By the way, the problem in San Francisco is still above the national average. It has declined some but has also become more visible and exploited.

That said, what is going on in San Francisco or what Pelosi has done or not done has no bearing on how our administration is handling the virus. You are echoing one of Trump's many diversionary tactics.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 09-15-2020 at 02:58 PM.
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  #294  
Old 09-15-2020, 04:25 PM
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BC, your comments and Crystals are the considerate and well-thought voices we desperately need in this abnormal and disastrous year.
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  #295  
Old 09-15-2020, 04:38 PM
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What's the matter with Donald Trump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Pelosi and Biden are influential but not in charge. What is happening in Pelosi's district has no bearing on this issue. As far as the Chinatown visit- https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/tr...and-chinatown/
https://abc7news.com/sf-chinatown-pe...fears/5964696/

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...atown/2240247/

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...cos-chinatown/

NO MASKS, NO SOCIAL DISTANCING, AND PELOSI IS TELLING THE PUBLIC, “EVERYTHING IS FINE”. Downplaying the actual threat of COVID-19.

How is that any different from the president addressing the same issue with no mask on, and downplaying the threat to keep panic to a minimum.

HYPOCRITES!

You better fact check, factcheck.

Quote:
Thank you for your service. No, you weren't part of the problem when you were defending the constitution even if you weren't voting then. I didn't say or imply that. I said if you don't vote you are part of the problem. You are accepting the problems we are discussing. That is not doing your part to change what you think is wrong. We need to stand up for what we believe is right. Voting is the key way we do so.
I will register to vote the day Jesus’s teachings are implemented in our society. This county was founded under GOD! The founders were Christians. The first amendment gives the right for those who do not wish to follow these teachings to do so. It also states religion can not be forced upon the people. JESUS IS NOT A RELIGION! HE WAS MAN WHO CAME TO TEACH MANKIND TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

FYI: They pray on the house floor before opening hearings. And, some of those prayers have been in the mighty name of Jesus.

Quote:
That said, what is going on in San Francisco or what Pelosi has done or not done has no bearing on how our administration is handling the virus. You are echoing one of Trump's many diversionary tactics.
February 24, 2020, the house speaker was advocating in the same manner the president was, and is. “Everything is fine”, in other words, “Don’t panic”.

I am not echoing anything but my allegiance to The Christ Jesus!
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  #296  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
https://abc7news.com/sf-chinatown-pe...fears/5964696/

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...atown/2240247/

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...cos-chinatown/

NO MASKS, NO SOCIAL DISTANCING, AND PELOSI IS TELLING THE PUBLIC, “EVERYTHING IS FINE”. Downplaying the actual threat of COVID-19.

How is that any different from the president addressing the same issue with no mask on, and downplaying the threat to keep panic to a minimum.

HYPOCRITES!

You better fact check, factcheck.



I will register to vote the day Jesus’s teachings are implemented in our society. This county was founded under GOD! The founders were Christians. The first amendment gives the right for those who do not wish to follow these teachings to do so. It also states religion can not be forced upon the people. JESUS IS NOT A RELIGION! HE WAS MAN WHO CAME TO TEACH MANKIND TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

FYI: They pray on the house floor before opening hearings. And, some of those prayers have been in the mighty name of Jesus.



February 24, 2020, the house speaker was advocating in the same manner the president was, and is. “Everything is fine”, in other words, “Don’t panic”.

I am not echoing anything but my allegiance to The Christ Jesus!
Pelosi visited Chinatown in Cal. in February. It was because business was down. People were staying away because they thought that since COVID-19 originated in China they would be infected if they went there. Her visit was before Cal. became a hot spot. Adhering to the guidelines was not necessary. The visit was strictly about Chinatown not about what should be done in any other area. She did not say everything was fine in America. She said everything is fine in Chinatown. Totally different. The local news stories were picked up and used to make the visit look like this was her position on COVID-19 nationwide. Her visit was not about the nation. It was only about Chinatown, and, again, only at that particular time.

Regardless, even accepting your misuse and misinterpretation of the clip as accurate, it still doesn't matter what she did or said. She is not the one in charge. The inappropriate actions of one person does not mean the inappropriate actions of another are OK or justified.

COVID-19 is happening on Trump's watch. The buck stops with him regardless of what anyone else says or does. The virus isn't his fault but anything that the Federal government does, right or wrong is his cross to bear. He is the current President. He is in charge.

I have no idea why you brought in religion as justification for not voting. I contend that if you want anything changed as to how this nation functions then register to vote and vote in all elections--county, city, state and federal. Applying the "Golden rule" how do you justify calling anyone a hypocrite?
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  #297  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:55 PM
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The religion part makes no sense to me either. He's free to believe in any religion. That doesn't mean he should or shouldn't vote.

As an american citizen, I would think voting for your local to national elected officials is part of your duty.

You can choose to vote or not to vote, that is your right. But God doesn't govern this country, our elected officials do.

Forgoing your right to choose the one you want to run the country seems a very passive way to live.
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  #298  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
The religion part makes no sense to me either. He's free to believe in any religion. That doesn't mean he should or shouldn't vote.

As an american citizen, I would think voting for your local to national elected officials is part of your duty.

You can choose to vote or not to vote, that is your right. But God doesn't govern this country, our elected officials do.

Forgoing your right to choose the one you want to run the country seems a very passive way to live.
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  #299  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:26 PM
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Pelosi visited Chinatown in Cal. in February. It was because business was down. People were staying away because they thought that since COVID-19 originated in China they would be infected if they went there. Her visit was before Cal. became a hot spot. Adhering to the guidelines was not necessary. The visit was strictly about Chinatown not about what should be done in any other area. She did not say everything was fine in America. She said everything is fine in Chinatown. Totally different. The local news stories were picked up and used to make the visit look like this was her position on COVID-19 nationwide. Her visit was not about the nation. It was only about Chinatown, and, again, only at that particular time.
You are one of those men who have an excuse for everything.

Quote:
Regardless, even accepting your misuse and misinterpretation of the clip as accurate, it still doesn't matter what she did or said. She is not the one in charge. The inappropriate actions of one person does not mean the inappropriate actions of another are OK or justified.
Obviously you know nothing about our government and do not realize the power The speaker of the house has. There is a scenario at this moment where the speaker could become president. Go educate yourself! How are you affiliated with Harvard again?

Quote:
COVID-19 is happening on Trump’s watch. The buck stops with him regardless of what anyone else says or does. The virus isn't his fault but anything that the Federal government does, right or wrong is his cross to bear. He is the current President. He is in charge.
Actually there are multiple channels involved with defending the nation against a pandemic. Go educate yourself. Again how are you affiliated with Harvard again?

Quote:
I have no idea why you brought in religion as justification for not voting. I contend that if you want anything changed as to how this nation functions then register to vote and vote in all elections--county, city, state and federal. Applying the "Golden rule" how do you justify calling anyone a hypocrite?
Because never, is there an option on a ballot for me to vote for the children of my great country, United States of America to learn the values and teachings of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

However, as not to pass judgment against others behaviors or beliefs, there are certain things they are trying to teach in the school that I certainly do not want my children to learn about.

Washington DC is full of hypocrites.
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  #300  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:30 PM
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What's the matter with Donald Trump.

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The religion part makes no sense to me either. He's free to believe in any religion. That doesn't mean he should or shouldn't vote.
That’s my business!

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As an american citizen, I would think voting for your local to national elected officials is part of your duty.
Good for you!

Quote:
You can choose to vote or not to vote, that is your right. But God doesn't govern this country, our elected officials do.
This country was founded under God, or in other words Beneath!
This country was not founded under man.

Quote:
Forgoing your right to choose the one you want to run the country seems a very passive way to live.
It’s probably better a man like me remains passive!
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