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-   -   2005 4.8is transmission shifting / slipping issue (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/100721-2005-4-8is-transmission-shifting-slipping-issue.html)

desertfire 05-19-2015 10:53 PM

2005 4.8is transmission shifting / slipping issue
 
Firstly, I’d like to say that this forum is an awesome treasure trove of information for anyone who owns an X5 and is a definite asset that all X5 owners should leverage. A lot of good and interesting information.
Recently I “adopted” a 2005 X5 (E53) 4.8is in Imola Red with all the trimmings and options… nothing was spared. It is an absolutely fantastic vehicle and has been kept in pristine condition.

Some info on the vehicle:

· 182k miles
o Nearly all open highway miles
o Previous owner used it as business transport between Michigan and Utah
o Was used for local commuting for < 25k miles through its lifetime
o Previous owner is a mechanical aficionado and installed a run-time clock… engine has 2694 hours on it
· Engine runs like a clock
o Has an amazing (intoxicating) sound when it “wakes up”
o No squealing
o No knocking
o Averages about 24MPG
o No leaks (water or oil)
o Occasionally leaves a puff of smoke when sitting idle for a while
o Doesn’t burn very much oil at all (hasn’t burnt anything noticeable in about 2500 miles)
o Oil was replaced at 9k intervals by original owner
· No electrical issues to report
o Original battery was replaced last week…. (10 years and still going…. ) It didn’t need to be replaced but I did anyway.

Now, on to the issue I am experiencing….
When accelerating it appears that when shifting from 4th to 5th gear the 5th gear catches and then appears to slip out of gear and then the transmission makes a “whizzing” sound, much like a slipping belt and a little like the sound an air ratchet makes when unscrewing a wheel lug (not the hammer part when loosening it). If I let go of the accelerator the gear proceeds to change and things carry on. If I don’t let go of the accelerator the transmission goes into “transmission failsafe program” mode and is basically locked into 3rd gear. If I come to a stop and shut the car off and restart the vehicle the error goes away and things carry on like it hasn’t happened. I have noticed that it happens more when doing a left turn and also when on an upgrade.

Additional details:

· ZF 6HP26 transmission
· Transmission never replaced
· It appears to occur when approaching ~3.5k RPM although has occurred with far less.
· “Garage”shifting from P to R/N/D and back and forth has no issues and does not make any clunking noises. It does take a few seconds for the gear to settle in, but it is not taking an overly long time… (just not crisp) and does not “lurch”.
· In Standard drive mode the problem occurs when shifting from 4th to 5th gear, as far as I can count it.
· In Sport mode the issue doesn’t happen as pronounced and occurs less, but nonetheless occurs.
o One time in Sport mode I didn’t release the gas in time and it went to failsafe mode. It stored a code P17E9 which I have yet to figure out what it relates to. Looked online but haven’t found anything. The code was cleared to see if it was a consistent issue and it has not happened again, although the slipping occurs.
· Another note on the Sport mode is that occasionally a gear will be held for an excessively long time, even if backing off the accelerator, and the only way to release it is to flip back to Standard mode.
· In “Manual” mode the gears shift fine and do not necessarily “slip”. The shifting works well, although it is not paddle-shift quick, but is consistent. There is a little hesitation settling into 4th and 5th but it does not skip out of gear at all.
· No smells or burning of transmission fluid is apparent.

I replaced the transmission fluid to see if the symptoms would alleviate and the transmission appears to run smoother, although the gear shift issue is still occurring. The shift from 1st to 2nd used to hesitate and kick hard when cold but since the fluid change it has been much smoother.
After reading some of the posts on the forum I replaced the battery (the original one apparently was only retaining a 34% charge) and the issue persisted. The alternator checks out fine as well putting out a consistent ~14.2 volts.

I do realize at this point that some work will be needed on the transmission and am not trying to avoid it but am rather interested in understanding what the appropriate fix is for the problem since the issue appears under specific circumstances. Replacing the transmission and torque converter, as much as it is a surefire solution, feels much like shooting a fly with a cannon. I am reserving my judgment on the symptoms as I am no expert in the area of automatic transmissions. I prefer to understand the issue as well as the potential remediation options before jumping into the lion’s den of mechanics that will obviously bleed the issue to the fullest extent they can.

My other vehicle is a 2005 330i ZHP with very low miles and is a joy to drive. It is refreshing to feel that the experience in this variant of the E53 is very sporty. Also, the vehicle has a certain poise and stance that sets it apart from others which inspires me to want to resolve the issue with this vehicle and give it a good rest of its life ahead.
According to a number of other posts there are various areas to look into, such as the MAF sensor, ABS control, Throttle Position Sensor, etc… , but before blindly throwing effort at trying to resolve the problem I am turning to you for support and advice on where to “dig”.

I am very mechanically inclined and will understand any level of technical explanation you may share. Also, if there is any solution that does not involve removing the transmission I will handle it myself as I am fully equipped from a tooling perspective. I don’t have a lift or I would handle the transmission removal as well if required.

Thanks in advance for your help and support!

PropellerHead 05-19-2015 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertfire (Post 1038551)
Thanks in advance for your help and support!

Sounds like stuff I was seeing before a transmission service, some small gaskets, and a transmission firmware update. I wrote and others contributed here.

desertfire 05-19-2015 11:37 PM

Thanks Propeller!

Going to jump on the gasket replacement in a week or so after procuring the parts and fluid.

PropellerHead 05-19-2015 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertfire (Post 1038557)
Thanks Propeller!

Going to jump on the gasket replacement in a week or so after procuring the parts and fluid.

Look into the firmware update as well. I still had the slip until the firmware was updated.

desertfire 05-19-2015 11:51 PM

-Propeller

Absolutely! I am currently in Carlsbad, CA and it turns out that the son of a good friend of ours runs a beemer indy shop down here and I'm going to reach out to him for running the update. I don't trust the dealership to do what they are expected to do, even though they have been flawless on my 330... just not taking chances...

Looking forward to getting the "5" into shape... love the car!

Also, will post pics of the "pretty lady" once things are in shape ;)

desertfire 06-23-2015 02:57 AM

Ok, an update on the action items for this thread...

I am just now getting back to dealing with this issue after being out of town for several weeks dealing with work... couldn't wait to get into this and figure it out.

I followed the posts that Propeller offered up (kudos Propeller, extremely informative and of awesome help!) and proceeded to execute part 1 of the fix: replacement of the mechatronic "adapter" seals. I replaced the square one as well as the 4 "cylindrical ones. I followed the procedure for draining and opening the transmission and removing the valve body. I wiped down the valve body to remove the black metallic "buildup" that was all over it.. not chunks or shavings, just thick black grime that was a little of everywhere. I'm guessing this is to be expected at 180k miles...

The old main adapter seal for the mechatronic was hardened and the gaskets shriveled. The cylindrical ones were actually shrunk to the point that they had receded into the main transmission body and were no longer even close to making contact with the valve body.

I would upload pictures but am not aware of where is a good place to upload them to where I could grant access to them for this web posting. I'll figure it out at some point...

After replacing the seals and refilling the transmission, the shifting is working far better and is definitely making a huge difference in a large part of the performance.

However,

The "slipping from 4th to 5th is still happening, however, the behavior has become consistent, and the metal whirring sound when the slipping occurs is no longer present, or at least it is not audible. I also learned today that his is called "shift flaring".

The pattern that I can tell is this:

· Drive Mode
o When accelerating at very low throttle, the gears drop fast almost to the point of choking the engine.
o With moderate throttle, the vehicle accelerates through the gears and if the tachometer is right around 2500 rpm, the flaring will occur, consistently.
o With a little more aggressive throttle, pushing the tach to ~3000 rpm the shift issue does not occur, but there is a moment of hesitation
o Going uphill causes the issue to appear more, but I assume that this is caused by needing a little more throttle which causes the system to fail when riding at ~2.5k RPM.
· Sport Mode
o When accelerating at moderate throttle it appears to not happen at a set speed.
o Going uphill apparently causes a hesitation in the shifting between 4th and 5th.
o One time the flare occurred when shifting from 4th to 5th under a little more aggressive acceleration
· Manual Mode
o No issues to report
o The shifting is crisp, very paddle shift speed… makes me want to get a paddle shift steering wheel.
o All gears are held effectively.
o There is a moderate “lurch” forward when the transmission is shifted manually from 2 to 1.

I reached out to the before mentioned “contact” of mine and he gave me the contact info for a ZF transmission “specialist” in San Diego. In speaking with the ZF guru, the contact there basically is saying that at 180K miles repairing the issue may just resolve into something else appearing that may need to be fixed, which may be costly. Also, they don’t repair transmissions, they only overhaul them, so this would basically turn into a transmission rebuild.

Looking at the schematics of the system, from secondary links in one of the posts on Propeller’s forum posting that he linked here, it appears that the only mechanical part in the system that could be causing this level of intermittent behavior would be a failure in the mechatronic valve body since it governs the shift points with the TCM system.

Tomorrow I will be reaching out to My Indie shop contact to verify the firmware on the transmission.

In the meantime, given the updates on the vehicle, does anyone have any idea where to dig on this problem? It is perplexing….

Your feedback is appreciated!

o3x5e53 06-23-2015 09:14 AM

Love a good read. Very informative. Please keep up updated with your problem. I just got my transmission serviced by ZF people here in Australia. They were so shocked on how black it was they were hesitatant to almost actually tell me. 240,000kms worth of dirty transmission fluid

Sounds like transmission problem is such a headache. I hope you get it fixed asap.

Doru 06-23-2015 10:01 AM

Propellerhead suggested to re-flash the tranny.
I also posted the same thing here and some other posts.
Report back after.
P.S. :After re-flashing you should follow the BMW 2-1 tip-in procedure. Basically, take it for a short drive, and EVERY TIME YOU COME TO A STOP, make sure you count to 5. ABSOLUTELY NO ROLLING STOPS. After driving and having 6-7 full stops, turn the vehicle off, wait a few and she's golden.

desertfire 06-23-2015 07:03 PM

Thanks All,

So, latest update....

Just got back from the Indie, Hugo's Euro Auto Repair in Carlsbad, CA, and Rick there dove into the transmission control. Turns out that the firmware is up to date and is matching the checksum of the input firmware image, so all is good there.

There were the following errors stored in the transmission control unit:
- There was one error of slippage between 3rd and 4th
- A fault on clutch pack E

There were no solenoid actuator errors and the test results came back clear for the operation of the Mechatronic.

He cleared the errors and I was on my way out and paid attention to a few details...

1. it seems that the transmission is "hunting" at the specific range of RPM's (~2700) between 3rd and 4th and it would seem to me that the system is trying to decide which of the gears to go with. At one point I had it actually flipping between the two gears constantly while going up hill at moderate gas.

2. When "coasting" under minimal power... like just the tip of gas to carry along... it seems that the transmission releases and engages the gear ever so slightly, but just noticeable.

3. It seems that the engine is choking under load at times... especially when the transmission is upshifting through its gears when under minimal application of accelerator. I would almost assume the system has no idea of where the accelerator is at. Usually I would think of this as a throttle position sensor or MAF sensor not responding, but the system has no indication of this being the issue.


If I were to look at this from a mechanical perspective, I'd say that the hydraulic system is not able to maintain a consistent fluid pressure when spinning under low RPMs, but, if that were the case, wouldn't the system slip when cruising at ~2500 RPM in 6th along the freeway especially uphill?

Also, why does the system seem to work that much better when hitting the throttle just past the ~3k RPM point?

desertfire 06-23-2015 08:40 PM

As an extension to my previous questions, how can I verify that the Torque converter is working correctly ? (i.e. what tests can be done to verify?)

CC

o3x5e53 06-24-2015 08:25 AM

Just throwing a thought at you. Maybe the vanos is shot? I read a article that when the vanos isn't working properly..it runs really sluggish/poor performance.

Lee Nedirof 08-08-2015 03:03 AM

2005 4.8is transmission shifting / slipping issue
 
Sometimes the sounds come from your transmission along with trouble in shifting due to malfunctioning of the torque converter. Also, you should check to see if there is any leak in the transmission fluid.

X53Jay4.8is 08-08-2015 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertfire (Post 1042322)
As an extension to my previous questions, how can I verify that the Torque converter is working correctly ? (i.e. what tests can be done to verify?)

CC

From your earlier description of the transmission behavior I would have thought that your troubles are the torque converter.

StephenVA 11-19-2015 10:49 AM

Any updates?

desertfire 02-11-2016 10:33 PM

Sorry for not having posted in a while, work had me all over the place and then the holidays hit, but, I did not give up on my quest to solve the issue of the erratic transmission behavior.


To handle the issue of the “transmission failsafe” mode kicking in and locking the machine into limp mode in either 3rd or 4th gear I looked into an OBD compliant scanner to clear the codes. While going through the different units out there I figured I would get one that would be able to decipher the BMW proprietary codes as well as potentially give me the ability to view real-time operational data to get some inside view on what is going on. I settled on purchasing a CReader CRP123 scanner as it seemed to fit the requirements although being a little more expensive. It had positive reviews overall and I took the plunge.



I drove the car and had the data stream reading going to get visibility into the shifting sequencing and the overall behavior and noticed that the issue is specifically occurring when shifting from 4th to 5th gear and when the torque converter clutch is either in open or regulated conditions. The more interesting part though is that when manually shifting from 4th to 5th, the 4th gear would sometimes “stick” although the unit would respond that the gearbox was in 5th gear.



Doing this for about a week or so of occasional driving I also observed that the shifting was quite harsh and would sometimes “hammer” into gear when shifting up or down between gears 1,2, and 3, leading me to believe that there was something not working with the pressure handling in the valve body. I poked around online and found a decent amount of documentation on the zf6hp26 transmission and explored the design of the system. It is interesting to note that the documentation I have found from ZF is all marked as zf6hp19/26/32. After looking at the design I eliminated the clutch plates/packs as being a source of the issue because of the erratic behavior. Also, I eliminated the torque converter as a source because the issue is specific to a certain gear set and is varying in behavior. The design of the transmission is very intricate yet the functionality is quite modularized and all of the shifting behavior is controlled by the Mechatronic valve assembly. The Mechatronic valve assembly has a series of dampers in it that are supposed to aid in balancing the transmission pressures during transitions so I am going on the assumption that pressure balancing may be causing a problem in the valve body management / sequencing. A rebuild of the valve assembly is apparently what was needed so I ordered a Sonnax “Zip Kit” (Gen 1) for my X5’s transmission.


The kit arrived and I proceeded to dive into dropping the valve body from the transmission and disassembling. I was successful in doing the rebuild myself, however, I took my time to do it (2 weeks on and off) and ran into several minor setbacks that, knowing what I know now, could have been handled in advance differently. Ultimately, I could write up an entire other thread on the experience of doing the valve rebuild with the Zip kit but it would take some definite effort and time. If there is enough interest as feedback on this thread then I’ll take the time to do a detailed write-up and pictorial of the job as well as provide practical info on the planning for doing it so that you are not hung up. It is a very interesting experience.


One thing I will share up front is that the documentation is lacking of several details which I was able to deduce, and also the diagrams of the exploded parts are not entirely correct and I recommend looking at the other documentation Sonnax has online on the differences between the Gen 1 and 2 of the transmission valve bodies for a correct breakout. Observations of the condition of the valve assembly is that the solenoids were very dirty and 3 out of 4 had their filters clogged with sediment, potentially explaining the pressure issues. Also, the damper pistons on the inside of the assembly were literally crushed and not doing any level work, potentially explaining the “bump” shifting.



I would also like to share that I refilled the transmission with Ford Mercon SP transmission fluid that I picked up at the local Ford dealership for significantly less than the ZF lifeguard or BMW branded fluid. Being that the 6R60 transmission is identical and that there are numerous other posts about the fluids being the same, I took the plunge and am quite happy to confirm that the transmission works perfectly on the Ford Mercon SP fluid.
Once reassembled and returned to operation I can report that the shifting is smoother and does not hammer anymore, which is a relief, however the issue of the behavior of the slip has changed but not gone away.
Now the “slip” is more discernable as if the unit is falling in and out of gear rather than a clutch plate slip. The error returned on the code reader now is specifically a “gear 4-5 ratio monitoring” error, whereas before it was consistently the “clutch E” errors, which is a relief to a certain extent.
Based on the design of the Mechatronic, and after doing some more research on this specific error on the other variants of the 6hpXX series of transmissions, it seems that the issue is now related to the solenoids of the valve body.



I feel that I have reached that “next level” in the game and ordered a set of replacement solenoids as well as the Torx bolts for the mechatronic to body mounting so that I’m sure that the current bolts aren’t used anymore as they have been torqued a number of times and I don’t want to take any risks.

The valves got in this week so this weekend I’ll jump back into the deep end here and see about throwing them in place. Shouldn’t take me more than 3 hours to do it at this point :)

Updates coming soon.

SlickGT1 02-11-2016 10:48 PM

I'm deff down for a valve body rebuild writeup. I'm sure there are quite a few of us who will benefit.

That being said, if you search for my name and solenoids, you will see a thread from me. I should have a link in it from another member, with a writeup on swapping out the solenoids.

So I never got a failsafe. But mine were gunked up as yours were. My issue was slow reverse, and only after slightly aggressive driving. Basically after it got nice and hot, it wouldn't shift into R right away. Took 3-5 sec to actually kick in. Sometimes very violently.

I also changed the mechatronics sleeve, and the rubber mount for the valve block. Figured while I'm in there, why not.

Have like 20k miles on it since the fix. No problems.

itscoo2pyopants 02-11-2016 11:40 PM

Good info in here, bookmarked for later

crystalworks 02-12-2016 11:01 AM

^What they said. Please do a write-up if you have time. Bookmarked.

desertfire 03-22-2016 02:02 AM

So…. I must admit that it is weird to feel comfortable about draining and disassembling a transmission as a “routine” weekend thing to do… but it has become fun.

I ordered the set of replacement solenoids and the Torx bolts for mounting the Mechatronic valve body to the transmission main body from thectsc .com . The Torx bolts were not listed so I reached out to them via email from their site and got a response from them and they processed the order directly to me via P**pal and the products were delivered promptly. Excellent service I must admit. And, it looks like the product was drop shipped directly to me from a ZF distribution point, which means that surely if there is anything I could POSSIBLY need I could get it from them, which is good.

I pulled the car into the garage and had the transmission drained and valve body out in about 45 minutes. 10 minutes later had the electronic unit removed from the valve assembly and proceeded to replace the solenoids. The original solenoid bodies were colored yellow, green, and one black. The new solenoids are yellow, BLUE, and one black. After comparing them I went on the assumption that the blue ones replaced the green ones and that the yellow ones were a direct replacement. The new solenoid set also came with a foam strip to insulate the connectors.

I replaced the solenoids one at a time, starting from left to right of the valve assembly, making sure to number and place the old unit into an egg crate that I used as a tray and taking a new solenoid from the package. Can never be too safe when doing these things so I made sure to absolutely isolate the old from the new. After replacing the solenoids I then placed the foam strip onto the connector array on the electronic module and mounted the module to the valve body. Immediately following I mounted the valve body to the transmission and closed up the transmission.

Total time was 2 hours, and I took my time. Not sure if this should be disturbing, but it was effortless.

I forgot to mention earlier that the Mercon SP fluid that I drained had about 1000 miles on it, which really isn’t much, but it drained out relatively clean and the viscosity was not changed, adding that the fluid is perfectly compatible.

Before refilling the transmission I took the time to reset the transmission “adaptions” by using the BMW INPA software and a USB cable that connected the vehicle to my laptop. Purchased it on Amazon for about $30 and is VERY MUCH WORTH every penny. Got in and reset the adaption, cleared any errors, and also configured the door auto-lock feature to automatically lock the doors when the car reaches 15 MPH, which was annoying me that it didn’t do it in the first place.

After doing the reconfiguration I pumped the fluid back in and topped it off with an extra half quart that I had lost during the drain/disassembly. I made sure to fill the transmission cold, start the engine and continue filling until it started streaming from the drain plug, and jumped in while it was running to flip through the gears and then went back under to continue filling. I did the gear shift flip three times to make sure that there was nothing left to fill, and then plugged the fill hole.

I drove the car around our subdivision, literally, and it felt like an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT VEHICLE!! Being late in the evening I decided to take it out the next day.
Took it out the next day and… Wait for it…… THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED !!!!!!!!!!! (I think I even cried for a second...)

The car shifted like it is brand new, can’t even feel the gears as they go through. Took it easy though as the ECU needs to re-learn the mechanics, so drove it easy and coming to steady full stops and not gunning at all for about 50 miles or so.. a good weekend’s running of errands and stuff…
The following week I decided that the vehicle needed “pressure testing” so I decided to go “Russian submarine testing” style and see how far I could push it to see at what point I’d start hearing noises so went for a 1400 mile weekend road trip through the southwest… a true pass/fail scenario ;-). Hills, declines, long grades, winding roads…

The vehicle performed flawlessly… winding up through the hills, especially in sport mode, was the most refreshing experience after all the troubles. It appears that the mileage has even gotten better… averaged 25 MPG on the freeways and 19 in town… made the trip on a little over 3 tanks, which was also nice.

I have a few more road trips planned and will post the progress as things move forward, but if there is anything I can recommend to anyone that has a vehicle with a ZF 6hp series transmission with about 100k miles on it since it’s last service is to replace the solenoids, rebuild the valve assembly with the Sonnax kit, replace the bridge seals between the mechatronic and the transmission body. Not sure whether the Ford Mercon SP fluid is any better than the ZF branded one, but I have an absolutely positive experience with the Ford Mercon SP fluid that I can vouch for as a testimonial

The PTSD from having dealt with the transmission issue hasn’t worn away yet and I’m still weary that the issue will come back, but after taking the “girl in a red dress” out for a weekend and clearing the 193k mile mark, I feel that the issue is completely solved.

For those that are out there and are having transmission issues, I truly hope that this “adventure” helps you in solving the problems you are experiencing.

Safe travels!

Omerta 03-22-2016 12:31 PM

Thanks for the follow-up, glad to hear you resolved the problem!

blackbeast 03-23-2016 09:14 AM

Thanks for the update! I'm glad it fixed the problems you had.

Any chance you could write out a detailed list of what you replaced, and possibly links where to buy them?

I'm not having transmissions problems myself, but a transmission service is on my to do list this spring.

blackbeast 03-23-2016 10:13 AM

I was doing some searching and came upon this: Important Information About Electrostatic Discharge - Sonnax

.... just thought I would leave this here for anyone thinking about doing this work on their transmission, good info to know before digging in

squidzilla 03-24-2016 10:15 PM

Thanks for posting this. I am weighing getting another X. A 2005 4.8is and this makes me fell better about most of the tranny issues I have read about.

Clockwork 03-25-2016 04:09 AM

Thanks for all this. I'm having a troubling feeling with my tranny and after 190k kms I should replace the valve body and its solenoids and some rubbers too.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

kvc 03-25-2016 05:15 AM

Wow - totally inspired after reading this thread. The symptoms you described are almost identical to those I have been trying to diagnose/remedy since purchase of my E53 last year...
I'm in your debt for such a detailed analysis and process of elimination. I'll be looking into this further and time permitting, will attempt to address this soon. As blackbeast has already asked, could you please post links to vendors so the required parts can be ordered? TIA

blackbeast 03-26-2016 02:59 AM

Looks like this site has everything we need, thectsc.com (no affiliation)

A 7 piece solenoid kit is $470, another $200 gets you a full fluid/filter replacement kit with the real ZF fluid, so all in all not too shabby assuming the transmission feels new afterwards like the OP's

The best part is it all seems very doable at home if you're careful and take your time

OrangeFurious 07-15-2016 03:00 PM

Bumping old stuff, but this is a fantastic thread. I had almost the exact problems on my 4.4i ('05 / 181k) and occasionally get a code P17E9 on my 4.8is ('06, 88k) - will look into the solenoids for the 4.8is.

Oddly enough, what fixed my slipping and frequent failsafe modes on the 4.4 was brake rotors. Just about all my transmission issues cleared up within a week of replacing all four rotors and pads.

amancuso 10-29-2017 10:05 AM

This thread seems like it died about a year ago. My new to me 4.8is w/ 83k miles seems like it shifts too quickly on moderate throttle (speed limit of 35-45) and to make it actually go it has to downshift. It also does something weird very rarely but has done it about 10 times over the past 3k miles. When traveling at lower speed, say 40, and I try to accelerate gingerly without stomping the pedal, it feels like the transmission shifts halfway, makes a whooshing sound then bumps into gear, almost like it's sliding before actually shifting into gear. I am getting the fluid changed along with that square adaptor, 4 small hoses and the electrical plug gasket changed, also checking the transmission programming and adaptations reset this weds. I guess my next step if this doesn't work is the solenoid or even whole mechatronics unit change?

upallnight 10-29-2017 10:26 AM

Check the circumference of all the tires. Are they the same? People with the 4.6 and 4.8 like to run stagger setup with these X5. If the circumference are not the same the differential will try to even out the rotations of the wheels which isn't really great for the differential.

amancuso 10-29-2017 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1119374)
Check the circumference of all the tires. Are they the same? People with the 4.6 and 4.8 like to run stagger setup with these X5. If the circumference are not the same the differential will try to even out the rotations of the wheels which isn't really great for the differential.

the tires are the factory correct size for the car with the same tread depths on all 4...

X53Jay4.8is 10-29-2017 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1119372)
This thread seems like it died about a year ago. My new to me 4.8is w/ 83k miles seems like it shifts too quickly on moderate throttle (speed limit of 35-45) and to make it actually go it has to downshift. It also does something weird very rarely but has done it about 10 times over the past 3k miles. When traveling at lower speed, say 40, and I try to accelerate gingerly without stomping the pedal, it feels like the transmission shifts halfway, makes a whooshing sound then bumps into gear, almost like it's sliding before actually shifting into gear. I am getting the fluid changed along with that square adaptor, 4 small hoses and the electrical plug gasket changed, also checking the transmission programming and adaptations reset this weds. I guess my next step if this doesn't work is the solenoid or even whole mechatronics unit change?

You should change out the mechatronic unit when you open up the transmission.

amancuso 10-29-2017 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X53Jay4.8is (Post 1119454)
You should change out the mechatronic unit when you open up the transmission.



Thanks. That’s the plan if this first service doesn’t help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pearlpower 10-29-2017 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1119473)
Thanks. That’s the plan if this first service doesn’t help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am sure I am not too far off when stating that over 90% of these transmissions on the road have at least one bad solenoid. I would definitely swap the solenoids first along with the other items you mentioned. A rebuilt valve body also comes with new solenoids.

amancuso 11-02-2017 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertfire (Post 1042317)
Thanks All,

So, latest update....

Just got back from the Indie, Hugo's Euro Auto Repair in Carlsbad, CA, and Rick there dove into the transmission control. Turns out that the firmware is up to date and is matching the checksum of the input firmware image, so all is good there.

There were the following errors stored in the transmission control unit:
- There was one error of slippage between 3rd and 4th
- A fault on clutch pack E

There were no solenoid actuator errors and the test results came back clear for the operation of the Mechatronic.

He cleared the errors and I was on my way out and paid attention to a few details...

1. it seems that the transmission is "hunting" at the specific range of RPM's (~2700) between 3rd and 4th and it would seem to me that the system is trying to decide which of the gears to go with. At one point I had it actually flipping between the two gears constantly while going up hill at moderate gas.

2. When "coasting" under minimal power... like just the tip of gas to carry along... it seems that the transmission releases and engages the gear ever so slightly, but just noticeable.

3. It seems that the engine is choking under load at times... especially when the transmission is upshifting through its gears when under minimal application of accelerator. I would almost assume the system has no idea of where the accelerator is at. Usually I would think of this as a throttle position sensor or MAF sensor not responding, but the system has no indication of this being the issue.


If I were to look at this from a mechanical perspective, I'd say that the hydraulic system is not able to maintain a consistent fluid pressure when spinning under low RPMs, but, if that were the case, wouldn't the system slip when cruising at ~2500 RPM in 6th along the freeway especially uphill?

Also, why does the system seem to work that much better when hitting the throttle just past the ~3k RPM point?

I have the EXACT same symptoms and error codes. Hoping a refreshed valve body and solenoids will fix my issue. :popcorn:

amancuso 11-06-2017 06:49 PM

Good news to report. The reman'd valve body w/new solenoids fixed the X! It shifts like a new car, no more weirdness, clunking or bumping. Also shifts instantly from P to R or D. No more transfailsafe! Very pleased.

crystalworks 11-07-2017 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1120153)
Good news to report. The reman'd valve body w/new solenoids fixed the X! It shifts like a new car, no more weirdness, clunking or bumping. Also shifts instantly from P to R or D. No more transfailsafe! Very pleased.

Awesome! Where did you buy your solenoids? Mine is still shifting fine (though it is aggressive, wonder if that's the Dinan programming) but would be nice to know of the source for the new parts when the time arises.

amancuso 11-07-2017 11:38 AM

I didn't buy just the solenoids, I bought a remanufactured valve body complete with new solenoids. The VB is upgraded with new internal bits to prevent the failures. I bought it from https://revmaxconverters.com/product...y-mechatronic/


Al.

crystalworks 11-07-2017 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1120216)
I didn't buy just the solenoids, I bought a remanufactured valve body complete with new solenoids. The VB is upgraded with new internal bits to prevent the failures. I bought it from https://revmaxconverters.com/product...y-mechatronic/


Al.

Bookmarking that for future reference. Thanks a ton. That's not cheap, but it's a helluva a lot cheaper than a new transmission or rebuilding one. :thumbup:

amancuso 11-07-2017 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1120280)
Bookmarking that for future reference. Thanks a ton. That's not cheap, but it's a helluva a lot cheaper than a new transmission or rebuilding one. :thumbup:

You're welcome! Driving it now is like night and day difference. Well worth it, and we plan on keeping the truck for many many miles.

Domino1968 01-01-2018 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1120284)
You're welcome! Driving it now is like night and day difference. Well worth it, and we plan on keeping the truck for many many miles.

Amancuso, what was the turn around time for sending/getting your valve body done. Any details on working with Revmax would be appreciated since I am ready to pull the trigger to get my valve body done. I have it out already and want to know if I should rebuild myself with a Sonnax zip kit or have Revmax do it like yours.

amancuso 01-02-2018 02:32 AM

There is no turn around time if they have it in stock. It’s good you have it out so you know which version to order. Just give them a call. Delivery was super quick.

Best of luck!

upallnight 01-02-2018 08:51 AM

There a youtube video on rebuilding the valve body for a ZF6HP26. If you are not inclined to try this yourself, the person in the video owns a transmission repair shop and he will also repair your valve body. His shop is located in New York State.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlDVqH9VEgQ&t=20s

amancuso 01-02-2018 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1125339)
There a youtube video on rebuilding the valve body for a ZF6HP26. If you are not inclined to try this yourself, the person in the video owns a transmission repair shop and he will also repair your valve body. His shop is located in New York State.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlDVqH9VEgQ&t=20s



That’s a good alternative, but the main reason I went with revmax is because they rebuild the units with upgraded bits and machining to prevent the thing from going wrong a second time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

upallnight 01-02-2018 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1125351)
That’s a good alternative, but the main reason I went with revmax is because they rebuild the units with upgraded bits and machining to prevent the thing from going wrong a second time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gary also rebuild the valve body and transmission with upgraded pieces from ZF. He will send the solenoid to be flow tested and only replace the solenoid that doesn't meet spec. You should see all of his videos on repairing ZF transmissions. He is so knowledgeable that BMW shops and Jaguar shops in his area send him the transmission from customers' cars to rebuild instead of doing it in house.

Domino1968 01-02-2018 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 1125339)
There a youtube video on rebuilding the valve body for a ZF6HP26. If you are not inclined to try this yourself, the person in the video owns a transmission repair shop and he will also repair your valve body. His shop is located in New York State.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlDVqH9VEgQ&t=20s

Yes, I've seen his videos many times and he seems to know his transmissions, hence why I am contemplating doing it myself using a SONNAX zip kit and new valve body plate. I have already bought new ZF Solenoids and installed it on the valve body which solved MOST of my issues, however, I still have the 4-5 shift problem. I am lucky that I have a spare valve body assembly so I do have the option of rebuilding one or getting it rebuilt while still driving. Mechanicaly inclined so I really would like to do it myself. Taking it out and resetting the adaptations is no problem since I have done it on my X a couple times now.

Domino1968 01-02-2018 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1125351)
That’s a good alternative, but the main reason I went with revmax is because they rebuild the units with upgraded bits and machining to prevent the thing from going wrong a second time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder exactly just what the upgraded parts are (SONNAX zip kit and other parts from them maybe?) and what machining do they actually do? As I said in previous post, I wouldn't mind tackling the job myself, but I do like that they guarantee their work.

Clockwork 11-29-2019 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amancuso (Post 1120216)
I didn't buy just the solenoids, I bought a remanufactured valve body complete with new solenoids. The VB is upgraded with new internal bits to prevent the failures. I bought it from https://revmaxconverters.com/product...y-mechatronic/


Al.

SO glad you mentioned it was this company as I'm about to buy this and have my mech install it.
I want to do the whole rebuilt mechatronic as I worry the separator plate and or maze in the valvebody may have a problem too, not just a solenoid or rubber gasket.
Glad it worked out. I'd very excited to see if this solves the exact same issues the OP had.

amancuso 11-30-2019 09:09 AM

Two years on and the Revmax fix still going strong.

sroth004 12-02-2019 02:30 PM

2005 4.8is transmission shifting / slipping issue
 
Thought it worth sharing in this thread I had Gary from AAA-1, who does the You Tube videos “upallnight” mentioned, work on my trans last year. Gary was thorough and very honest, had my valves tested by Ericsson Industries, which supplies ZF parts, rather than going straight to replacing components, the result being mine needed internal seals only, no hard parts. I share this only to let the group know that he is a great resource if you are in need of this type of work and geographically reasonably to his business. I travelled 7 hours roundtrip twice, once for drop off and once for pick up, and have no question about having made that investment in my time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

amancuso 12-02-2019 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sroth004 (Post 1172563)
Thought it worth sharing in this thread I had Gary from AAA-1, who does the You Tube videos “upallnight” mentioned, work on my trans last year. Gary was thorough and very honest, had my valves tested by Ericsson Industries, which supplies ZF parts, rather than going straight to replacing components, the result being mine needed internal seals only, no hard parts. I share this only to let the group know that he is a great resource if you are in need of this type of work and geographically reasonably to his business. I travelled 7 hours roundtrip twice, once for drop off and once for pick up, and have no question about having made that investment in my time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good to know. Any links to Gary's shop? What problems was your trans having?

RRPhil 12-05-2019 07:15 PM

If the solenoids go faulty (all too common with the 6HP26) then there’s a high likelihood that the corresponding damper (each proportional pressure control solenoid has its own separate accumulator/damper in its hydraulic clutch circuit) has become worn and ineffective as a result. The damper is made up of a solid metal piston into which is embedded a rubber ‘spring’. The rubber spring flattens over a period of time, becoming permanently deformed.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psgr1tgdlo.jpg

The accumulators/dampers should therefore be replaced when the solenoids are changed. The Sonnax zip kit replaces this damper design with a cupped metal piston with a traditional wire helical compression spring.

https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7fb6eb41.jpg

Phil

Clockwork 01-22-2020 01:25 PM

SO I too just had my ZF6HP26 valve body (separator plate B052) replaced by a new unit from RevMaxconverters.com and it too has made my tranny new. I have owned this x5 for 10 years now and It's never shifted this smoothly. I barely notice it moving about honestly. SO GLAD I went this route.
Perhaps the upgraded aluminum, instead of plastic bits, will help but I don't care as long as it lasts. Expensive but built properly and has 1 year warranty as opposed to me buying the ZF kit and repairing and if I had screwed up something badly, I could be back to square one repairing again. Buying this and returning my core (free, since they include a UPS core return sticker) was smarter and got my x5 back on road faster.

amancuso 01-22-2020 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork (Post 1176217)
SO I too just had my ZF6HP26 valve body (separator plate B052) replaced by a new unit from RevMaxconverters.com and it too has made my tranny new. I have owned this x5 for 10 years now and It's never shifted this smoothly. I barely notice it moving about honestly. SO GLAD I went this route.
Perhaps the upgraded aluminum, instead of plastic bits, will help but I don't care as long as it lasts. Expensive but built properly and has 1 year warranty as opposed to me buying the ZF kit and repairing and if I had screwed up something badly, I could be back to square one repairing again. Buying this and returning my core (free, since they include a UPS core return sticker) was smarter and got my x5 back on road faster.

Glad to hear! Mine is chugging along too.

gregy 12-01-2020 12:14 PM

The Revmax option is the best remanufactured value out there (BMW remanufactured is over 2K) compared to rebuilding the transmission valve body on your own. Just the parts alone are $400 + (solenoids, gasket and sonnax zip kit) and the cleaning of the valve body and machining of the mating surfaces based on the process described on their site seems to beyond a DIY project. The Sonnax zip kit seems to address a lot of the inherent issues with some of the internals. Most of the internal rubber seals are in need of replacement by now anyhow.


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