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-   -   no face vent heat on AUTO (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/109828-no-face-vent-heat-auto.html)

Russianblue 02-16-2019 10:54 AM

no face vent heat on AUTO
 
for some reason I cannot get air to blow through my face level air vents when my heater is on the AUTO setting. not consistently anyway. if I press the face vent button, the warm air flows immediately. if I press auto, it doesn't.

it doesn't matter if the cold hot wheel is toward hot or cold. if it's on auto, I can roll it all the way up or down....but nothing happens.

but wait...on a completely random basis, but sometimes never, after I drive around for an unspecified time with the IHKA on auto, all a sudden out of nowhere the vent will open and air will start flowing from the face vents. it's as if the vent servo finally just activates itself. but it hardly does this anymore.

any ideas?

cn90 02-16-2019 11:37 AM

What does the owners manual say?

Russianblue 02-16-2019 12:32 PM

if that's a not-so-subtle suggestion to RTFM, while I appreciate all the time you took to come up with it, there is something not right when compared to 2005 X5 sitting in the driveway right next to this 2003. The vent action on AUTO behaves entirely differently. there is definitely air coming from the face vents with the heat on auto. it's not full force, but it is certainly more than in my 2003. and the cool/hot dial works very well. I use it all the time.

can you direct me to a page of the manual which addresses this?

Qsilver7 02-16-2019 12:45 PM

Since the AUTO setting is going to be using the tempt thermistor that is located just within the "vent" on the left side of the IHKA control panel to help regulate things...have you checked this vent for collection of dust?


There could be a small possibility that the older X5 could have a larger collection of dust that may be affecting how this thermistor is reacting...thus when in AUTO mode...could be regulating air distribution differently.

Also, we can't see how the IHKA is set...do you also have the fan speed set on AUTO as well? If you didn't know...fan speed can be AUTO or manual...when it is in AUTO mode...the word "auto" appears in the fan speed display. When you manually select a fan speed...the word "auto" disappears from the fan speed display and the HVAC blower is in manual mode.

BTW...I'm just throwing spaghetti noodles at the wall to see what may stick...so don't bite my head off if this is something you've already considered. :D


Another thought that came to mind that could have the same type of IHKA set-up react differently is the position of the dash vents...especially the one ABOVE the IHKA control panel.

There is a known issue where the footwell can sporadically blow heated air (much to the chagrin of the driver) when cooler air flows downward from the center dash vent into the IHKA control panel (i.e...the same little vent mentioned at the beginning of my reply). If the vent in tthe 2005 is angled differently than the 2003...even though the IHKA control panel is set the same...the reaction/function of the systems could be different depending on how the IHKA control panel is interpreting the data that it is collecting from the air temp in the cabin being sucked in across that thermistor.


cn90 02-16-2019 12:59 PM

In the link below, Page 109 talked about "Auto":

https://justgivemethedamnmanual.com/...mw_x5_3.0i.pdf


I am still trying to figure out when you hit "Auto", does the HVAC unit "remembers" what you LAST programmed it in terms of which of the following?

- Blower Speed
- AC (On or Off)
- And Vents settings

I forgot how to "program AUTO".

Russianblue 02-16-2019 03:07 PM

This is all good information and I believe it will require a thorough going over each part of the system. Great place to start!

To answer your questions, I am definitely referring to when I click the AUTO button and AUTO appears on the display. When I click the face vent button AUTO disappears from the display. That's when the issue occurs.

I think the first thing to do is probably to check for any hardware/parts problems issues. In this case, it sounds like I need to verify that the Aux water pump and interior temp sensor are up to snuff like you mentioned, among other things. Is there a simple way to test the heater valve itself or the external temp sensor. those are also part of the input system.

I checked BMW Scanner and I am in fact getting one code for the AUC. I remember trying to open that thing and clean it at some point and simply could NOT get it apart. I suppose I could just break it apart and duct tape it back until I got a new one if that's necessary.

let me try blowing out the interior sensor dust and testing the aux pump and i'll take another crack and the AUC and report back.

wpoll 02-16-2019 03:17 PM

Opening the IHKA requires a few small pieces of cardboard...

Repairing buzzing noise from HVAC

HTH...

mr_robot 02-16-2019 04:47 PM

I have to press the AUTO button twice so the AUTO text comes up on the display.

So from what I can see when I first press it is AUTO ventilation. Then when I press it again and AUTO text is displayed then everything is automatic.

Then with the AUTO displayed if I press any of the ventilation buttons the AUTO text stays displayed while the ventilation button I selected is on and fan speed remains automatic.

Either way I don't like to use the AUTO feature as it will blast the fan to reach the set tempature as quickly as possible and the fan noise is annoying.

So I just wait till the coolant is up to operating temp and set fan speed to 3 manually.

Russianblue 02-17-2019 11:43 AM

well, turns out I have multiple issues to take care of before continuing to assess. first off, the aux water pump was dead. I think it's probably been dead for years and I always thought the X just had a crappy heater until I got my 2005, which has a GREAT heater. I'd suspected this a while back on the 03 so I had a replacement at the ready which I installed in about 15 min.

2nd, I turned on the secret menu and watched the coolant temp while driving. it will not go past 84c...which may explain why there are some traces of soot under the tail pipes. in my 2005, the fully warmed engine is between 90-93C almost always.

so that means the 6 year old T-stat on the 2003 is probably bad. i'll change that this week.

after replacing the aux pump, the heater behaved a tad differently on the Auto setting. I still need to spend some more time this week assessing it but my first hunch is that I could have a partially stuck heater valve. there's a definite change in the temp of the air coming from the vents when at a stoplight compared to driving. I have to eliminate all these issues though before I can get an accurate assessment of the IHKA situation because all of those parts affect the way the heater behaves in various situations.

Qsilver7 02-17-2019 01:51 PM

Thanks for the update...does sound like you have some issues you need to suss out. Good luck. :thumbup:

kmm111 02-17-2019 04:13 PM

I’ve never messed around with an earlier X, but the pre facelift 325xi’s you can adjust how much air flow, flows from each vent system as customers complaints about heating & air conditioning varies between owners. My X never feels like the floor vents put out enough hot air & my feet are always cold. Anyway if you have pa soft, access the system & see if your is adjustable.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Russianblue (Post 1155326)
This is all good information and I believe it will require a thorough going over each part of the system. Great place to start!

To answer your questions, I am definitely referring to when I click the AUTO button and AUTO appears on the display. When I click the face vent button AUTO disappears from the display. That's when the issue occurs.

I think the first thing to do is probably to check for any hardware/parts problems issues. In this case, it sounds like I need to verify that the Aux water pump and interior temp sensor are up to snuff like you mentioned, among other things. Is there a simple way to test the heater valve itself or the external temp sensor. those are also part of the input system.

I checked BMW Scanner and I am in fact getting one code for the AUC. I remember trying to open that thing and clean it at some point and simply could NOT get it apart. I suppose I could just break it apart and duct tape it back until I got a new one if that's necessary.

let me try blowing out the interior sensor dust and testing the aux pump and i'll take another crack and the AUC and report back.


Russianblue 02-17-2019 08:35 PM

nice to know. I will check that out. In the mean time, I did have the chance to clean the interior temp sensor and sampler fan. I doubt this was helping the situation but I also doubt it was affecting the temp reading THAT much.


https://i.postimg.cc/59SfLf6v/screen...7-19-27-41.png

https://i.postimg.cc/rsMc3PYK/screen...7-19-27-28.png

Russianblue 02-24-2019 12:30 PM

ok, so here's the update. I replaced the bad thermostat and am now cruising at 90-93 instead of 78-80.

I put in a new heater valve.

I replaced the water pump and serp belt while in there even though the old one only had 50k miles on it.

The heater blows much hotter, which is excellent, but still no heat on AUTO from the vents. My theory is that the little wheel on the center vent that mixes hot air and cold air is broken. There is ZERO reaction when I roll that wheel from hot to cold or cold to hot. Is that a complex system involving multiple servo motors etc?

cn90 02-24-2019 12:55 PM

Look into bimmerfest E39 5-series forum.
There was a DIY on how to fix the Auto Vent (the center dial).

Another option is to use Manual setup like you said and ignore the Auto setup.
Also, you can live without the center vent...

Qsilver7 02-24-2019 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russianblue (Post 1155924)
My theory is that the little wheel on the center vent that mixes hot air and cold air is broken. There is ZERO reaction when I roll that wheel from hot to cold or cold to hot. Is that a complex system involving multiple servo motors etc?

The stratification dial on the dash's center vent is attached to a simple bowden cable.


Russianblue 02-25-2019 07:41 AM

I took out the CD player yesterday to check the bowden cable action. nothing is detached or broken behind the center vent and I can feel the cable moving through it's housing. I could NOT figure out how to get that center vent out despite everyone's attestation that it's simple. I think it probably is but I was unable to find a single youtube vid for the e53. A few were for the e39 but even those were incomplete, and would skip the part where the vent was actually removed.

i'm gonna have to take out the glove box to inspect the other end of the bowden cable because apparently it can malfunction on that end occasionally and get detached or bound up or something. I read a couple of threads about that mixer flap getting stuck in a car that had been bought from smokers. one is here: https://xoutpost.com/1068907-post5.html

I dropped the car off to my kid again yesterday and since I'd rather do a one handed CCV replacement than remove the glove box, I told her she'd have to wait until the weather got better for me to tackle that issue. if there are no electronic servo parts to this and this is purely mechanical, there's got to be a fairly simple fix, glove box removal notwithstanding.

When I picked up my other Xer from her yesterday, it was immediately obvious to me how the mixing flap is malfunctioning. the flap is extremely useful in my car. I find myself messing with it all the time. For the 8 years I drove her car, I think that flap has been broken the entire time. I have always wondered why it apparently did nothing. Moreover, I think however it's stuck, it reduces the volume of air coming from the vents as well. my newer Xer blows air at a velocity probably 30% greater.

Interestingly, this kinda goes against my parenting nature to make SURE every single thing on that car is working properly. I thoroughly believe that every teenager's first car should provide them opportunities to deal with mechanical problems as well as something to use as leverage with their own kids, lol! "Well, MY first car barely had HEAT and we had to keep blankets in the car!" That said, the selective BMW OCD in me has a hard time leaving it.

Qsilver7 02-25-2019 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russianblue (Post 1155992)
...I could NOT figure out how to get that center vent out despite everyone's attestation that it's simple. I think it probably is but I was unable to find a single youtube vid for the e53. A few were for the e39 but even those were incomplete, and would skip the part where the vent was actually removed.

Did you try searching on the www.newTIS.info website? If not, many times you can find step by step instructions.

I entered my 2006 X5 4.4 info and went the manual selection route (you can type a key word or phrase into the search box if you don't know where to start). I selected:
  1. Repair Manual & Technical Data
  2. 64 Heating & Air Conditioning
  3. 64 22 Air Vents & Other Outlets
  4. 64 22 161 Removing & Installing fresh air grille center (click follwing link for instructions): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...utlets/4KSFnnP
Looks like there's a special tool that you use to unlock the grill...click the link above and you'll see pics and links to additional info etc. Good luck. :)


64 1 020
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/obj/CVj9oOhc
Note: (release hook) For releasing and removing fresh air grille. For removing various covers.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/obj/NCgHQpG


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/obj/3mx05yA
Note: the location of tool 64 1 020 in the pic below used to UNLOCK the center fresh air grille

Russianblue 02-25-2019 10:29 AM

I actually did NOT think of TIS and that's a great idea. Typically i find the explanations there difficult to locate and lacking necessary detail. But certainly helpful in this case.

Found the Air Grill hooks at Baum - $72. So that's a no go. Time to figure it out then. I'm thinking a couple of chopsticks could do the trick. just need to grind that little lip and ramp shape i guess. or i could grind an old screwdriver.

anybody ever done this with JUST a regular flat head? This guy says it's easy with a flat-head.

Ok, so i just found this picture of the bottom of the grille for reference.

https://i.postimg.cc/HkkQxqkQ/2019-02-25-09-04-45.png

Fifty150hs 02-25-2019 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russianblue (Post 1155924)
ok, so here's the update. I replaced the bad thermostat and am now cruising at 90-93 instead of 78-80.

I put in a new heater valve.

I replaced the water pump and serp belt while in there even though the old one only had 50k miles on it.

The heater blows much hotter, which is excellent, but still no heat on AUTO from the vents. My theory is that the little wheel on the center vent that mixes hot air and cold air is broken. There is ZERO reaction when I roll that wheel from hot to cold or cold to hot. Is that a complex system involving multiple servo motors etc?

You're in luck, no servo motors. The wheel just moves a Bowden cable. It's likely either disconnected or broken.

cn90 02-25-2019 01:57 PM

RussianBlue,

I used to be OCD too.

But NOT every battle is worth fighting.
Do you fight every paint scratch or wheel curb rash? I don't any longer as I get older.

This does not mean I am sloppy, all it means is I am now "wiser" as I choose which battle to fight...


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