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-   -   X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes. (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/110360-x-wont-idel-after-replacing-valve-stem-seals-receiving-misfire-codes.html)

Purplefade 06-01-2019 01:48 PM

X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes.
 
Hi guys – I need the power of the forum brain trust!

I just completed installing new valve stem seals in my 05 X5 4.4i, which went pretty well, but upon completion I can’t get the car to idle right, I continue to have misfire codes.

Codes I have:
2A89 – DME: Exhaust Vanos 2 (I was able to resolve this code by resetting the adaptations for the valvetronic motors a second time – it is now gone, but I wanted you guys to have the history.)
29CC – DME: Combustion misfires several cylinders
29D2 – DME: Combustion misfires cylinder 6
29CF – DME: Combustion misfires cylinder 3 (This one is totally intermittent, it showed up on first start, went away right away and then came back the next day but went away again as fast as it appeared.)

What I have done:
1) Verified voltage at the Vanos plugs – 12.44v batt side and 3.49v DME side = plugs seem to be working
2) Swapped Vanos – exhaust for intake, intake for exhaust = no change, issue stayed with exhaust vanos 2
3) Swapped bank 1 exhaust CPS for bank 2 exhaust CPS = no change
4) Swapped coils with cylinder 5 & cylinder 6 = no change
5) Installed a new plug in cylinder 6 = no change
6) Swapped plugs from cylinder 5 & cylinder 6 = no change
7) Reset valvetronic motors (again) = no change, but it did clear my exhaust vanos code which has remained gone through all recent testing
8) Cleared adaptations (again) = no change
9) Climbed all over the valve covers and spark plug tubes looking for vacuum leaks or oil seepage – everything seems solid.

Car will start and almost immediately surges up to about 2000 RPM then drops to 400/500 RPM, almost dies and then catches this off idle slow, rough idle that hangs around 600 or so RPM. There is no valve clatter, no tick, no ping, nothing, both valve covers are as quiet as a church mouse.

I have gone back through everything that I have done, verified all plug-in connections and even reset the majority of them just to be sure. It seems like if I start the car cold I just get the codes and rough idle, after messing with it for a few cycles l I get codes, rough idle and it will start to give me a VERY SOFT “pop”, “pop”, “pop” that I can barely hear through the air intake tube – I have the MAF and air intake pipe connected but have the actual air filter box off.

Battery is 12.7 volts
Battery with car running is 14.2 volts
Gas is new (considering the “old” gas factor I syphoned the tank down and filled it with fresh fuel, I then clamped a 1/2 hose to my fuel hardline and allowed the pump to run for a handful of seconds to push fresh fuel to the engine. (anal retentive I know…but I’m stumped))

NOTE – unplugging the MAF it idles “better”, marginally, but I still have the misfire codes.

Where do I go with this thing next?



EDIT - 4x4 light just came on as well.

X5only 06-01-2019 04:20 PM

You've confirmed the sensor connections on top of the engine are not swapped, right?

See this post. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...isfires-3.html

Purplefade 06-01-2019 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5only (Post 1163328)
You've confirmed the sensor connections on top of the engine are not swapped, right?

See this post. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...isfires-3.html




CPS sensors? I couldn't mix mine up, the harness is designed with a long lead for the outside/lower sensor and a short lead for the inside/upper sensor, they aren't all like that?


That said, I ran to the garage to verify and yep, they are definitely long and short, wouldn't even be possible to mix them up, the top sensor wouldn't reach the lower sensor, pigtail is too short.


We are talking CPS, right? :-)

Purplefade 06-01-2019 06:24 PM

UPDATE:


- Being at whits end with this thing I decided to double check all of my reassembly work, so.. I took a rag, sprayed it with brake clean and cleaned and re-seated every connection that I touched during the VSS process - CPS, vanos, eccentric sensors, coil plugs, valvetronic motors, you name it, ALL of them and...


- To my amazement - it runs! - Starts and idles smooth, transitions to low idle without a hiccup and seems to be running nicely but for one small thing - it has no power. Blip the throttle and the car responds with nothing for the first second or so and them lamely revs up ever so slightly.


- Shut it off and restarted it again and the same thing, starts perfectly, catches idle, idles smooth and transitions to low idle without an issue - but I did get two new codes on that start:



2B62 DME: Camshaft sensor, intake
2B65 DME: Camshaft sensor 2, exhaust


Do I have these two sensors backwards possibly? Doesn't seem to be any issue per say but for the lack of power and delayed throttle response, if it only had to idle you'd think it was perfect??

X5only 06-01-2019 06:46 PM

Go through that thread link above. Your X5 is the same year and model as mine. It's possible the sensors are mixed up, not the connections. Verify the positions by part number, especially on the driver side. You're getting there :thumbup:

X5M-ISH 06-01-2019 07:52 PM

Seeing this thread made my automotive heart sink in that first post of yours. I am super stoked you resolved most of your issues and for that matter have everything back together. I have been watching your relevant threads closely.

Purplefade 06-01-2019 08:07 PM

Well... short lived party...


I swapped the CPS sensors in bank 1 (intake to exhaust\exhaust to intake) and now my two camshaft sensor codes are gone and I am back to "2A89 DME Exhaust VANOS 2" and have my surging idle back.



2B62 DME: Camshaft sensor, intake - GONE NOW
2B65 DME: Camshaft sensor 2, exhaust - GONE NOW


2A89 DME Exhaust VANOS 2 - CAME BACK, with surging idle


Please check my sanity on this - exhaust vanos 2 is the top, or outside most, vanos solenoid on the left hand side (driver side\lhd) of the engine, is that correct?

Purplefade 06-01-2019 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5M-ISH (Post 1163333)
Seeing this thread made my automotive heart sink in that first post of yours. I am super stoked you resolved most of your issues and for that matter have everything back together. I have been watching your relevant threads closely.


Thanks brother! - I know when I got it all back together and turned the key for the first time I really expected it to fire up and run... nope... was a killer!


And then I went back through everything before jumping on here, just to double check myself, and really found nothing of huge significance. I had clipped a coil ground (center cap nut on valve cover) because the bolt was frozen, but I did a bang up solder and new eyelet job on that sucker! I also found bare copper exposed on my bank 2 exhaust vanos harness, too close to the connector to fix, but thankfully the connector tested good and I was able to clean that wire up and seal the jacket.


Cleared the codes and held my breath... and it still didn't run.


Then - the clouds parted and the sucker ran like a top for 7 minutes... and now I am back to a VANOS code and poor idle.


I'm sure we'll eventually nail it down, but wow, this kind of stinks.


Two steps forward, one step back... but getting there !ouch:








You have a VSS job in your future?

X5M-ISH 06-01-2019 08:20 PM

You didn’t adjust with (or inadvertently touch) the timing sequence anywhere on the front of the engine? The timing anywhere being off by one tooth will cause a sporsdic idle and the dme will try like mad to advance or retard via the VANOS any respective cams to make up for this problem.

X5only 06-01-2019 08:36 PM

Good point X5M-ISH. Purplefade, you did verify the engine timing before putting back the valve covers, right?

Purplefade 06-01-2019 09:19 PM

I stayed as far away from the fronts of those cams as I possibly could at all times LOL, knowing the sensitivity of the timing I wanted to try and avoid any hiccups at all cost.

Actually checked the timing, got called in for dinner and came back out only to check it again because I had everything in the workbench.

I would like to say Iím good there, but the flip flop of codes has me wondering.

Purplefade 06-01-2019 09:20 PM

I did remove and clean up all of the sensors, possible one crapped out, but with all of my flip and flop of parts I would think I would be able to follow a failed part... dunno, itís crazy.

X5M-ISH 06-01-2019 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplefade (Post 1163355)
I did remove and clean up all of the sensors, possible one crapped out, but with all of my flip and flop of parts I would think I would be able to follow a failed part... dunno, itís crazy.

Depends how systematic the installer is. I will say you are being very systematic. The whole point is to swap harnesses per respective sensors, clear codes, start the truck and wait for codes then evaluate a migrating problem. However, if you inadvertently fried part of your engine harness or a sensor clip, then the problem will follow the harness clip and not the sensor. Of course if you have a bad clip and two bad sensors youíre doubly Fíed and just chasing your tail. Worst case scenario, you can pick up a new engine harness or for that matter a known good used one (dude is parting out a black e53 in the classifieds right now). 12517540449.

I had gremlins in my 1997 Integra Type-R after doing an engine swap and ended up throwing a new engine harness at it and this solved everything. The original harness was just too knicked in a few places to be worth anything.

Unicorn 06-01-2019 09:35 PM

You did the valve stem seal job. How many of all the other o-rings and seals did you replace? Did you just do VSS and leave the rest?


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com

Purplefade 06-01-2019 09:46 PM

Oh man... I thought about that too, I pulled the majority of the harness out of my way to get in to the valve covers (and everything else) and I wondered if I had inadvertently kinked something, I wasn't rough with it, but it got moved.



I actually initially wondered if the harness was the issue when I had the persistent exhaust vanos 2 code because I had swapped the other solenoids in its place and the issue stayed in place, it did not follow the solenoid. I was also able to clear all of the other codes and that particular one always remained, with the exception of when it went away and I was left with just the two cam positon sensor codes.... dunno what happened there...



I bought another vanos pigtail just so that I would have it, but before I officially did the cut and solder I tested the connection and I got a solid 12v+ on the batt side and 3.4v+ (i think it was) on the DME side so that plug wasn't actually compromised it was just nicked... which also screwed my theory of that particular vanos plug being the issue.


And yet somehow, I am now left back where I started, with that blasted exhaust vanos 2. - And BOTH of my cam position sensor codes went away, and are still gone.


I am aaallllmmmooooosst to the point where I may have to look inside and retrace my steps on the timine, etc, though I am honestly not sure what I missed.

Purplefade 06-01-2019 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unicorn (Post 1163357)
You did the valve stem seal job. How many of all the other o-rings and seals did you replace? Did you just do VSS and leave the rest?


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com




Oh no, I am a proactive repair guy :D


I replaced everything - vc gaskets, valvetronic motor, motor mount and o-rings, cam position sensor o-rings, eccentric sensor gaskets, upper timing cover gaskets, everything that touched the top end of the motor, including the vacuum pump, vacuum lines and some of my broken plastic hose clips that I had been meaning to order, got replaced.


It started as a labor of love :rofl: and has quickly turned in to :wow: - LOL...

Unicorn 06-01-2019 09:57 PM

VANOS solenoids pushed all the way in? Those are sometimes tricky and hard to push in.


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com

EODguy 06-01-2019 10:09 PM

You aren't getting any codes for the valvetronic, but did you roll them back by hand and do that whole PITA process when you took them out and put them back?

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Purplefade 06-01-2019 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1163362)
You aren't getting any codes for the valvetronic, but did you roll them back by hand and do that whole PITA process when you took them out and put them back?

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk




That I did not do, probably should have, but did not. I marked mine, motor and mount and counted the turns, then put them back just the opposite... After the fact I did go back and reset the motor functions, but... that was after the fact.


I have just about conceded to pull the covers, check the timing, timing "sprocket" and bolts and just take a good look over everything in the head and put it back together again, just to say I have checked everything.

Purplefade 06-01-2019 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unicorn (Post 1163361)
VANOS solenoids pushed all the way in? Those are sometimes tricky and hard to push in.


Sent from my iPhone using Xoutpost.com




Yea, I got a bunch of light on those little suckers and checked that out, no o-ring showing, nice and seated. LOL - I thought of pulling the retainer and tugging on one to male sure it was seated, but that felt counter productive :)

X5M-ISH 06-02-2019 12:26 AM

Stupid question: the truck has oil in it? Oil pressure is good? VANOS needs oil pressure to function. There is also a possibility that you damaged that particular VANOS when you removed it. Such as it was ‘just’ worn out enough that when you pulled it out that was enough to work it out of spec.

Purplefade 06-02-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5M-ISH (Post 1163367)
Stupid question: the truck has oil in it? Oil pressure is good? VANOS needs oil pressure to function. There is also a possibility that you damaged that particular VANOS when you removed it. Such as it was Ďjustí worn out enough that when you pulled it out that was enough to work it out of spec.



I thought that also, maybe it just gave up the ghost so I tried swapping the intake for the exhaust solenoid and then even went as far as swapping bank 1 for bank 2.

Had a had a bad solenoid I would have expected my issue to follow the bad part, but it did not. Everything I have done has resulted in me working myself in a full circle right back to the original exhaust Vanos 2 error.

Having looked at everything multiple times now I am starting to think that I need to go back to the timing and start over there. I wouldnít think it was possible but Iím special... so maybe with my luck I got it 180 out or something.

Purplefade 06-02-2019 11:15 AM

Sunday morning update - strangest thing happened:


- Turned the key
- Truck starts
- Idles rough for about 15/20 seconds and then sets in to a nice, smooth idle, no miss and no SES light


- BUT I can't touch the throttle, the instant I touch the throttle it acts like it wants to die
(But as soon as I lift my foot it sets right back in to a nice, smooth idle and still no SES)



- And I still have active code 2A89 DME: Exhaust Vanos 2 (But no SES??)

X5only 06-02-2019 12:05 PM

See post 42. I'm not saying that's definitely your issue, but need to consider it carefully as the error code is the same as what you're consistently getting now - 2A89, and engine goes into limp mode when accelerated above idle.

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...isfires-5.html

Had below CEL- Rough idle, car would go into Limp mode when motor under moderate load.

- 2A89: CDKAMWS2: outlet/exhaust vanos 2: camshaft adjustment has not reached retard/late position (Signal or value below threshold)
- 2A84: CDKENWS2: intake/inlet vanos 2: Limit stop adaptations out of valid range (Signal or value below threshold)

Tired but did not correct issue
- Swapped all vanos solenoid with known working ones bank 1 and 2
- DME Ram Backup via toolset32
- Swapped CPS sensors with known working ones bank 1 and 2

Issue Solved
- CAMS needed to be re-timed - BMW Tool needed (Possible out of alignment from prior shop doing valve stem seals)

SlickGT1 06-02-2019 12:09 PM

I don’t know why no one mentioned this yet. Or maybe I missed it. But disconnect the maf. And try again.

I’m more inclined to say you have a vacuum leak by the way.

X5only 06-02-2019 12:13 PM

Yes, he already mentioned that in his first post "NOTE Ė unplugging the MAF it idles ďbetterĒ, marginally, but I still have the misfire codes."

May be he should also clean it with CRC MAF cleaner? And do a smoke test to verify engine is sealed properly.

Purplefade 06-02-2019 12:25 PM

I do have some CRC MAF cleaner, bought it specifically for this job!

Not a bad idea, going to pull MAF and clean and retest. Then I think I am going to pull and clean the Vanos solenoids just to be anal retentive... and retest.

Considered smoke testing for vacuum leak... but I really didnít touch anything but the vc gaskets... for the most part.

SlickGT1 06-05-2019 10:36 PM

any updates?

Purplefade 06-06-2019 07:11 AM

Pulled the MAF and both Vanos in Bank 2 and cleaned them thoroughly, reinstalled and no change.

I have it scheduled to go over to my Indy on Monday if I donít have it running this weekend.

He suggested as did I find a handful of posts online that it may need a DME Ram Backup to reset it that sitting with the battery disconnected for so long may have caused it to donĒweird thingsĒ...

I started a thread last night about DME Ram
Backup, I have INPA running with Tools 32 but I am unable to find the correct .grp files to access my DME.. or I would totally give it a shot.

Purplefade 06-07-2019 11:37 PM

I will be damned!


I pulled the valve covers and the intake cam on bank 2 is retarded - its is not the exhaust cam that is advanced. I can only assume that it takes its base reading from the cam and therefore thinks the intake cam is right, making the exhaust advanced.


Anyway, I have it apart and have verified timing on both banks, bank 1 was spot on and bank 2, exhaust was spot on and intake was retarded...


I realize its 80nm\59 ft lbs, but how hard should I have to wrench on that cam bolt to break it loose?

X5only 06-08-2019 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplefade (Post 1163815)
I will be damned!


I pulled the valve covers and the intake cam on bank 2 is retarded - its is not the exhaust cam that is advanced. I can only assume that it takes its base reading from the cam and therefore thinks the intake cam is right, making the exhaust advanced.


Anyway, I have it apart and have verified timing on both banks, bank 1 was spot on and bank 2, exhaust was spot on and intake was retarded...


I realize its 80nm\59 ft lbs, but how hard should I have to wrench on that cam bolt to break it loose?

I haven't looked, see if there's something here https://www.newtis.info

Wow, what an adventure! Well done on your latest findings:thumbup:

Purplefade 06-08-2019 12:23 AM

That did it! Found it right away, exactly what I was going to do, grab the cam with a large wrench to hold it solid and then break the cam\timing bolt.


I think I'm going to call it a night for tonight. Dieing to know actually... but I'm not putting it back together tonight so I couldn't start it anyway.


Will reset that intake cam in the morning and see how she does from there!


Fingers crossed!

andrewwynn 06-08-2019 09:10 AM

X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes.
 
It's vital to adjust the vanos full CCW (pretty sure that direction) from front before setting the timing. If not you could have the exact situation you discovered since the exhaust is directly tied to the intake but the intake varies based on vanos inside.

It takes a STUPID amount of torque to break the T50 (or is it T55) loose. Much more than what it's set with. I couldn't break it loose with 225 ftlb impact and the T-star was getting stripped by the second time (I had to redo the timing). Make sure you are going righty-loosey if this is M62.

Purplefade 06-08-2019 11:56 AM

I wondered that, being an N62 if this still righty loosey? It seems like it is, to your point I have cranked on this thing in both directions and it IS going to take some force to break - wow!

Have to do a bit of research before I get back at it today, I was assuming this was reverse threaded with the cam turning clockwise but really should be sure before I actually break it...

X5M-ISH 06-08-2019 12:43 PM

Even though you will not bump your own thread, make sure to update your original post with your solution! People WILL stumble upon this thread in an internet search. That would be a HUGE service from you if you can do that for everyone.

Also, for those of us who insisted the timing was off, we tentatively nailed it ;)

SlickGT1 06-08-2019 12:44 PM

Wait. How does timing get out of whack with doing VSS?

How do you even check timing without timing tools ready? Now you have me nervous when my time comes.

Purplefade 06-08-2019 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 1163830)
Wait. How does timing get out of whack with doing VSS?

How do you even check timing without timing tools ready? Now you have me nervous when my time comes.



I am asking myself the same thing... using the ďAGAĒ tool type how does the timing actually get messed up... I never touched it.

Strangest thing is that I checked the timing twice before I bolted the valve covers on, pretty easy, just set the intake plate on the intake cam and check for flush on the head and then repeat with the exhaust. Again, I checked and double checked, bolted the valve covers down and started the car... with it out of time somehow.

Now I have the VCs pulled and low and behold... I find the bank 2 intake cam out of time. Totally not sure how I accomplished that, at first I thought the cam/timing bolt must have been loose - that said, I can confirm that sucker is TIGHT!

Again, I have no idea how it moved, but it did and now Iím working on fixing that [emoji106]


I wouldnít sweat it, all in all the job is pretty straight forward, tedious, but pretty straight forward.

You can definitely do it, I would just recommend checking your timing a bit more diligently than I apparently did. [emoji50]

andrewwynn 06-08-2019 01:00 PM

Is the cam actually off or is the reluctor wheel just misplaced. There have been two recent threads where the timing wheel got loose. I thought they were both N62 but I can't remember if it was. Much easier fix if it's just the wheel got mis positioned.

Also: did you ever have timimg tool on the reluctor wheel mid process? I ask because I messed up the timing and had to redo on M62 when I had the timing tool on the reluctor wheel and it self-tightnened during the 720į chain tightening procedure.

Anyhow as long as the intake wasn't too far behind that valves got hit it seems you are quite close to get it resolved.

Oh: HUGE TIP: Hit the T55 sideways with a hammer a little more than a love tap but not like sinking a nail. It will break the "sieze" and takes like 40% less torque to break free. Search yt for an example video. I learned the trick after doing it the hard way about 6-7 times the last 3-4 much easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

X5M-ISH 06-08-2019 01:05 PM

Generally when everything is pulled and your standing there looking at the timing chain(s), cams, VANOS units and all that, you go nuts with zip ties to secure the timing chain(s) in place after you’ve locked the crank at proper TDC. This may involve manually turning the crank until you can get the pin in the hole and verify the entire system is TDC. For everything else like the VANOS, cam gears and cams you scribe the metal on non-wear surfaces. Use your smart phone to take smart pictures of you being smart with all your zip ties and scribes and back it up with a few notes on paper.

There is really no rush during these steps so being as thorough as possible allows you to reference your material when you are ready for reassembly. Because parts are under tension and/or pressure they can rotate when you least espect it or by accidentally bumping the wrong thing or accidentally partially disassembling the wrong thing. Your thoroughly done tear down to secure the timing system will mitigate problems.

This is not to fault the OP, but to say that as a home mechanic, anything is possible. I’ve accidentally installed piston rings upside down on 1 of 8 pistons requiring a complete tear down and reassembly. All because of the way I grabbed the parts and layed them on my bench. I did it one time differently and failed to verify before installation. Good times. Strive to lock/scribe everything you can in place and just take your time.

Purplefade 06-08-2019 01:05 PM

Cam is actually off, just enough that the timing plate sits about an 1/8 of an inch off the head on the lower side. Will physically need to break the bolt and turn the cam to flatten out the timing plate.

Good call on ďsmackingĒ it with a hammer, may just give me the shock I need to get it to break loose and from there - yep, I definitely think that I have found my issue.

Iím now starting to ask myself if it was like that when I checked it and I simply missed it the first go round because I can talk you I cranked myself in to some pretty twisted positions to make double sure this time!

andrewwynn 06-08-2019 01:13 PM

X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes.
 
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/DiHMOp9

No mention of righty-loosey. I think the N62 uses right hand threads on the timing adjustment units. Also crazy different from the M62 looks completely foreign to me. Read the step by step carefully. There is mention of getting the vanos into the start position and that if you can't it's worn out.

The process is quite different than with the M62 but looks maybe more like my M54 but I've not done M54 timing yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f5e23f3e12.jpg

I love simple directions! Only one step to completion.

Purplefade 06-08-2019 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5M-ISH (Post 1163829)
Even though you will not bump your own thread, make sure to update your original post with your solution! People WILL stumble upon this thread in an internet search. That would be a HUGE service from you if you can do that for everyone.



Also, for those of us who insisted the timing was off, we tentatively nailed it ;)



Totally agree, when this is all done I will update the original thread with link to this and this thread with a link to that and my detailed findings for sure [emoji106]

I know it drives me crazy when I follow a rabbit hole and never find a resolution.

And yes... as much as it pains me, you guys were right, it was the timing. Rats! But hey, Iím real glad you guys pushed me to check it again before dropping it off at the indy.

I would have been totally disappointed with myself if he called me and said yep, itís the timing [emoji50]

Purplefade 06-08-2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5M-ISH (Post 1163835)
Generally when everything is pulled and your standing there looking at the timing chain(s), cams, VANOS units and all that, you go nuts with zip ties to secure the timing chain(s) in place after youíve locked the crank at proper TDC. This may involve manually turning the crank until you can get the pin in the hole and verify the entire system is TDC. For everything else like the VANOS, cam gears and cams you scribe the metal on non-wear surfaces. Use your smart phone to take smart pictures of you being smart with all your zip ties and scribes and back it up with a few notes on paper.

There is really no rush during these steps so being as thorough as possible allows you to reference your material when you are ready for reassembly. Because parts are under tension and/or pressure they can rotate when you least espect it or by accidentally bumping the wrong thing or accidentally partially disassembling the wrong thing. Your thoroughly done tear down to secure the timing system will mitigate problems.

This is not to fault the OP, but to say that as a home mechanic, anything is possible. Iíve accidentally installed piston rings upside down on 1 of 8 pistons requiring a complete tear down and reassembly. All because of the way I grabbed the parts and layed them on my bench. I did it one time differently and failed to verify before installation. Good times. Strive to lock/scribe everything you can in place and just take your time.



Amen to that! I really thought I had it nailed the first time and stubbornly continued to try and trouble shoot around it... Learned that lesson for sure but it took me completely exhausting every other possibility first.

You can bet I will lock everything in place this time and once I think Iím finished - Iíll check it again just to be sure [emoji106]


Will keep you guys posted!

Purplefade 06-08-2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn (Post 1163838)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/DiHMOp9

No mention of righty-loosey. I think the N62 uses right hand threads on the timing adjustment units. Also crazy different from the M62 looks completely foreign to me. Read the step by step carefully. There is mention of getting the vanos into the start position and that if you can't it's worn out.

The process is quite different than with the M62 but looks maybe more like my M54 but I've not done M54 timing yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f5e23f3e12.jpg

I love simple directions! Only one step to completion.



Thatís what I saw as well, no mention at all of reverse thread. I have a second set of hands coming over now to help me hold the cam while I crack the bolt loose and just to help keep an eye on everything.

Help should arrive any minute and then itís back to the garage until Iím finished.

Will update you again in a few hours [emoji106]

X5only 06-08-2019 03:09 PM

As Andrewwynn pointed out, please pay attention to this detail if you haven't already - confirm the locking of the adjustment unit in its initial position before verifying or adjusting the N62 engine timing:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/DpNVZpB

"Important!
When the engine is shut down, the inlet and exhaust adjustment unit is normally locked in its initial position.
The situation may arise in some individual cases where this initial position is not reached and the camshaft can continue to be rotated in the adjustment range of the adjustment unit.
In order to avoid incorrect timing adjustment, it is essential to check the locking of the adjustment unit and if necessary perform locking by rotating the camshafts".

Purplefade 06-08-2019 03:34 PM

Adjustment units feel locked, lobs on 5 look good and Iíve broken the intake cam bolt and turned the cam to align it with the special tool. Locked the cam bolt back down and rotated the engine two full revolutions and rechecked the timing - all appears to be spot on now.

Plates sit nice and flat on the head and take no effort to apply or remove [emoji106]

Going to pull everything off the engine now and start reassembly, fingers crossed once sheís all buttoned up she runs this time!

X5only 06-08-2019 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplefade (Post 1163844)
Adjustment units feel locked, lobs on 5 look good and Iíve broken the intake cam bolt and turned the cam to align it with the special tool. Locked the cam bolt back down and rotated the engine two full revolutions and rechecked the timing - all appears to be spot on now.

Plates sit nice and flat on the head and take no effort to apply or remove [emoji106]

Going to pull everything off the engine now and start reassembly, fingers crossed once sheís all buttoned up she runs this time!

Perfect, this is exactly what the shop would have done:thumbup: Now take it easy as you reassemble. No rush and good luck:D

andrewwynn 06-08-2019 06:23 PM

Just one step left: "assemble engine"

Purplefade 06-08-2019 06:59 PM

I am sad to report that upon reassembly it started, ran absolutely wonderfully for 30 seconds (heck, I thought it was fixed) and then dropped in to limp mode and threw the same 2A89 dme exhaust vanos 2 code...

Needless to say sheís reassembled and thereís no way Iím tearing it down again to triple check my work.

Sheís scheduled to go to my Indy tomorrow and sadly that is where sheíll remain until she runs again...

All that said, as soon as I know what it took to fix it, I will definitely update this thread so its complete and closed out.

Bit pissed that I wasnít able to solve it, but I think admitting my defeat now and letting her head to the shop will not only save my sanity but my marriage as well [emoji12]

Canít say enough how much I appreciate everyoneís help, you guys rock!!

andrewwynn 06-08-2019 07:50 PM

Since you never loosened the cam bolt I suspect as the TIS mentioned, likely a failure in the vanos unit. At least the Indy has a solid head start where to look. We will all be anxiously awaiting the answer.


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X5only 06-08-2019 09:13 PM

Having recently successfully done valve stem seals on the same model and year vehicle (2005 X5 4.4), I'm doubly curious what could have gone wrong:dunno: My vehicle fired right up on the very first start after the work was done, and has been great since. I'm trying to iterate through the variables in my head of a possible culprit, but nothing comes to mind. You've simply covered all the possibilities I could think of. My DIY experience shows that typically such daunting issues turn out to have really simple and stupid fixes. By the way, did you ever find that keeper that got lost?

Purplefade 06-08-2019 09:35 PM

I know, I am definitely no pro but Iím pretty handy and Iím stumped.

Iím with you, heís going to call me and tell me it was the simplest thing (and I hope it is) and Iíll feel like an idiot for a few minutes and then just be happy to have it back [emoji16]

On that keeper, I never did find it but I did watch it roll off the frame rail into the engine compartment abyss... I looked everywhere and never did put my hands on it but Iím 99.999%... sure it didnít make the depths of the engine. (I thought really hard about that too, or anything else that may have dropped - even rain over and counted the oil drain plugs to make sure I had all 5 [emoji10])

I know I was totally disappointed when it didnít start and run... granted this is my first VSS job on a VVT engine but itís not my first VSS job and it really wasnít all that different... with the exception of feeling like I was working through the birth canal on the center two intake valves... wow!

SlickGT1 06-08-2019 10:47 PM

Still. What could you have possibly done to mess timing up? Like seriously, what did you unbolt to mess it up?

Does one even have to check timing when doing VSS? Is that a required step?

Iím just curious how a tighter than shit bolt let a cam move. Did you have timing problems before?

Purplefade 06-09-2019 12:00 AM

I keep asking myself that very question. Using the tool you don't ever directly touch the timing nor do you remove anything that would cause an issue to the timing. You are all over the intake cam and eccentric shaft while you're doing the job, but neither of them ever move so again shouldn't be an impact to timing...


What did I unbolt to mess it up? - I wish I knew... aside from the obvious items required to do the VSS, I didn't touch or unbolt a thing, I am stumped. (I did reset a handful of the eccentric levers that slipped down but that is to be expected and shouldn't\wouldn't affect the timing.)



With regard to checking timing after doing a VSS job, if you ask me, it is an absolute requirement - I checked mine twice before I put it back together the first time and three times before I put it back together the second time... and it still didn't run...


No timing problems before, car ran beautifully, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes today I would still be arguing that there is no way that car is out of time, I checked it myself... 5 times!


The only thing I can think of is that MAYBE the cam lock on that intake cam is failing and when I checked the timing last time I thought I had the cam locked and somehow it moved a micro amount when I first started the car (but I never touched the cam bolt, timing was spot on when I put it back together the first time.) but then reality sets in and I ask myself how\why that would happen now when the car goes trough numerous start stop cycles a day.


Chalk it up to gremlins I guess for now. I'm so curious as to what my indy finds you can't imagine, it's just sitting in the garage driving me crazy for now until Monday!

X5M-ISH 06-09-2019 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplefade (Post 1163854)
I am sad to report that upon reassembly it dropped in to limp mode and threw the same 2A89 dme exhaust vanos 2 code...

NOOOOOOOOooooooooo! I am so bummed for you and I know that feel. I was convinced this morning you had it in the bag finding that 1/8Ē discrepancy. What an emotional ride youíve been on with this. While you didnít nail it like you wanted (and we hoped) itís also ok to know you tried everything you possibly could and to concede when appropriate. Great work man. You did a good job.

Purplefade 06-09-2019 12:17 AM

Thanks brother!!


I was convinced too, I was (honestly) so excited when that intake cam plate didn't seat this morning that I openly did a little dance beside the car! I thought "Hot damn, I found you!"


It was a tough pill to swallow but as much enjoyment as I got out of the initial project, and I say that honestly, I went in to it with happy thoughts of some garage time and a solid project to dig in to and knock out, the last few weeks of diagnostic work have quickly tarnished that...


It is now with relief that I hand it off to my Indy to let him call me when he knows what's wrong with it.

Purplefade 06-10-2019 03:18 PM

X won't idel after replacing valve stem seals - receiving misfire codes.
 
Indy just called me - sheís alive and running extremely well he said! [emoji106]

Exactly what I had hoped, something so amazingly simple that I was completely blind to it... the vanos plugs on bank 2 were swapped... DOH!

So thereís a $141 (which isnít bad at all) learning lesson there that I will never repeat again, thatís for sure!

Long story short.. label and take more pictures than I obviously did or you too could spend 2 weeks in the garage trying to break fix what wasnít broke...

Now.., I donít know if it was an ironic coincidence that I found the intake cam timing as far off as I did or if the two issues in tandem were just more than I could diagnose... but, for the moment... I donít care [emoji12]

andrewwynn 06-10-2019 03:47 PM

I will walk away with this lesson and silver lining: without the wiring goof you'd not have found the timing error. It's well worth $140 to have the cam timed correctly. Win win.

Fantastic and that is the best case scenario of what could have come from that!

You should have sent pics a good chance one of us would have caught that.


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Purplefade 06-10-2019 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn (Post 1163953)
I will walk away with this lesson and silver lining: without the wiring goof you'd not have found the timing error. It's well worth $140 to have the cam timed correctly. Win win.

Fantastic and that is the best case scenario of what could have come from that!

You should have sent pics a good chance one of us would have caught that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



I agree 100% [emoji106]

And yes, without the wiring issue pushing me to go back through my work that bill could have been much higher - had that call been ďwe need to time itĒ.

Sadly, I have messed with the Vanos solenoids on this thing so many times that area didnít get pics... I thought to myself short pigtail to ďVanos 1Ē and long pigtail to ďVanos 2Ē... and thatís what I get for thinking vs just taking a pic of it [emoji12]

Overboost 06-10-2019 04:12 PM

That mistake will surely be made by our members in the future so this thread will be a lifesaver for reference. Glad you're up and running again. :thumbup:

X5only 06-10-2019 04:16 PM

Congratulations! Phew, what a happy ending:thumbup:. Must be the best running N62 engine out there :D Mistakes happen even with the best. I've heard of one of the best and most experienced chief confess to cracking the egg, throw the yolk into the trash and place the shell into the frying pan!

Enjoy your vehicle and drive like it's meant to be. The missus gotta love your adventures :bustingup

andrewwynn 06-10-2019 05:36 PM

The more important lesson is perseverance paid off. You did kind of a worst case external scenario and it was the best worst case. More people will have similar oops unrelated to this job that will keep them encouraged.


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X5M-ISH 06-11-2019 10:39 AM

Nice, nice. So you have driven your truck by now? Anymore smokey puff of shame?

crystalworks 06-11-2019 11:49 AM

Congratulations!!! Was starting to have second thoughts about doing mine after your problems. You were so methodical/cautious and still had issues... was unnerving. But glad you are set and good to go now. :thumbup:

:bow::bow::bow::bow:

Purplefade 06-11-2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5M-ISH (Post 1164014)
Nice, nice. So you have driven your truck by now? Anymore smokey puff of shame?



Oh yes, picked her up last night and took her out for about an hours drive or so just to let things seat back in from being offline for so long.

After that I treated her to a bath and interior cleaning to get the shop funk off [emoji16]

And yes, I am happy to report that after a nice 20 minute idle, there is no smoke! To follow that up I started it and let it idle in the garage for about 20 minutes this morning before backing out for work and again, happily, no smoke!

(Note - mine only took about 5 or 6 minutes before it started sending up smoke signals, it was terrible, sitting through any type of drive through was enough to make me want to start wearing a bag over my head...)

Purplefade 06-11-2019 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks (Post 1164020)
Congratulations!!! Was starting to have second thoughts about doing mine after your problems. You were so methodical/cautious and still had issues... was unnerving. But glad you are set and good to go now. :thumbup:



:bow::bow::bow::bow:



Thanks CW!

Nah, donít sweat it, you can definitely knock it out yourself if youíre comfortable under the hood - and I know you are [emoji106]

Not to mention youíve got the entire forum behind you.

Make life easy for yourself. I used a 4 shelf garage shelving unit and labeled the top shelf ďdriverĒ, second shelf ďpassengerĒ, third shelf ďintake and miscĒ and put the big parts on the bottom shelf.

I then made some quick labels for CPS upper, CPS lower, Vanos in, Vanos ex, etc, etc and as I removed pieces parts I laid them by their respective label. I also didnít throw away ANY of the old pieces parts until I was ready to put that respective piece back on the car - Example I left the o-rings on the Vanos solenoids until I picked them up to put them back in, then I caned the old ones and put the new ones on. Did the same for my VC bolts, CPS o-rings, eccentric shaft sensor gaskets, etc.

Biggest concern I had, believe it or not, were the brackets on the timing covers and alternator and how they went on their respective components, take a decent picture of those and youíll be solid!

Oh... and snap a pic of those Vanos plugs too [emoji12]

Purplefade 06-11-2019 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn (Post 1163970)
The more important lesson is perseverance paid off. You did kind of a worst case external scenario and it was the best worst case. More people will have similar oops unrelated to this job that will keep them encouraged.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



It also gave me a huge amount of data that I was able to provide to my Indy which saved him a ton of time and me a ton of money [emoji106]

oldskewel 06-11-2019 03:12 PM

Nice work. I have a different engine (M54), but was following on hoping for a good outcome. Glad you got there. :thumbup:

As far as I know, there are not many plugs on these cars that can be mistakenly interchanged like that. O2 sensors are another one, so I labeled those carefully when taking things apart for the engine work last summer.

But for all the ~dozen or so connections in and around the intake manifold, not only is the cable length and bend a good clue, but the connectors themselves are keyed, so for example you don't actually need to worry about mixing up two nearby 2P plugs.

The keys in the connector will prevent that. I know you know that, but for others following at home wondering how hard it should be to take everything apart and put it back together, there is some perhaps non-obvious protection built in against problems.

So it's probably an easy mistake to make, since keeping absolute track of connectors is not usually necessary. Nice PSA for everyone that this is something to watch out for - just like the O2 sensor connections.

Purplefade 06-11-2019 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskewel (Post 1164030)
Nice work. I have a different engine (M54), but was following on hoping for a good outcome. Glad you got there. :thumbup:

As far as I know, there are not many plugs on these cars that can be mistakenly interchanged like that. O2 sensors are another one, so I labeled those carefully when taking things apart for the engine work last summer.

But for all the ~dozen or so connections in and around the intake manifold, not only is the cable length and bend a good clue, but the connectors themselves are keyed, so for example you don't actually need to worry about mixing up two nearby 2P plugs.

The keys in the connector will prevent that. I know you know that, but for others following at home wondering how hard it should be to take everything apart and put it back together, there is some perhaps non-obvious protection built in against problems.

So it's probably an easy mistake to make, since keeping absolute track of connectors is not usually necessary. Nice PSA for everyone that this is something to watch out for - just like the O2 sensor connections.






Thanks oldskewel :thumbup:



Is strange that they keyed nearly everything except the vanos, cps and O2 sensors, hmm, wonder if it was because there are 4 of each and they thought they'd really screw with us good when we finally needed to service those items... :confused:

Purplefade 06-11-2019 07:26 PM

Doing a brain dump for myself while everything is still clear in my head, I figure I might close this thread out with the consolidated detail of the issues I experienced, the process that I followed and pass along any dumb luck knowledge that I may have picked up along the way.


Thoughts?
Suggestions?




1) Setup space to put items that you remove from the car (I used a 4 shelf plastic storage shelf that was 48” wide x 20” deep and 60” tall with the top shelf labeled “Driver”, the 2nd shelf labeled “Passenger”, the 3rd shelf labeled “MISC” and the bottom shelf labeled “Intake & Assc”
2) Setup space close to the car for your tools, optimally you want everything that you will need for the job within arm’s reach (You will be swapping tools a bunch, allen to hex, to socket, extensions, etc, etc)
3) Let car sit a few days to bleed down fuel pressure (or be ready to be sprayed)
4) Disconnect the battery
a. Remove the hatch floor
b. Remove the spare tire
c. IF YOU HAVE AIR SUSPINSION – remove the 4, 10mm nuts and washer that hold down the compressor and push this off to the side (BE CAREFUL of your plastic air lines when you do this, make sure they are not in a bind or otherwise compromised)
5) Remove hood
6) Remove the air intake path
a. remove the air filter box cover, maf and elbow going to the intake (you'll need a nut driver to loosen the clip on the throttle body)
b. remove the 10mm bolt holding down the air box and the 4 plastic push clips holding down the air intake directly on top of the radiator and remove the air box and intake
7) Remove the electric fan
a. using a flat head screw driver push down on the clips holding the fan to the radiator and push then towards the engine (this will free up the fan so that it can be pulled up from the radiator)
b. unplug the large power connection going to the fan directly under the top radiator hose
c. unplug the small power connection going to the impact sensor on the top center of the fan (there are three zip ties holing that wiring in place, 2 on top the fan housing and one on the side, make sure to clip all three before pulling the fan out)
d. pull the hoses out of the hose retainers on the front of the fan (one on each side about mid ways down holding the cross over hose and power steering line and three across the bottom holding the lower cross over hose
e. BE CAREFUL removing the fan as the hose holders get snagged on everything and will either break the hose holder or the item its snagged on – Push the fan slightly away from the radiator and pull straight up on it and set it out of your way. BE CAREFUL of the ears on the plastic radiator retainers, left and right the right one will get hung up on the fan as will the small coolant hose going in to the top of the expansion tank... you'll know what I'm talking about when you get there, watch those.
8) Remove the cabin filter and air box compartment to access the rear valves
a. Loosen the twist lock clips holding the cover down on the cabin filter compartment and remove the cover
b. Disconnect the positive batter lead from the “copper jumper lug” under the plastic cover and move it out of the way (the battery should already be disconnected so no worries of shorting out)
c. Remove the two 13mm nuts holding the air box in place (one will be a single 13mm nut (pass side assuming LHD) and the other side will be a 13mm nut and plastic holder (driver side assuming LHD) for the batter positive cable)
d. Remove the weather stripping that is attached to the air box (it is simple pull off press on, easy to remove and put back)
e. Remove the “air horns” on either end of the cabin filter compartment
i. Lift straight up on each outer edge of the cabin filter compartment ends and the edge triangle shaped air horn piece will unseat and pull straight up, remove both of those
f. Pull slightly up and straight out on the air box and set it out of your way (it is a wee bit heavy and awkward, for hands wouldn’t hurt here)
9)

Once the hood, air intake path, fan and air box are out of your way you’ll want to work your way front to back down each bank of the engine.

Bank 1
10) Empty and remove the windshield washer fluid container
a. Unplug the washer pumps, you will either have two or three depending on if you have the headlight washers or not.
b. IF YOU HAVE HEADLIGHT WASHERS – remove the clamp holding the high pressure line on the headlight washer pump (largest of the three pumps, on the engine side of the reservoir) and pull that line loose from the pump (NOTE – you will need a small hose clamp to replace this factory clamp with)
c. Remove the two 10mm plastic nuts holding the washer fluid tank on (One is against the fender side and one is against the “firewall” side
d. GENTLY lift up on the washer fluid tank about 5 inches looking for the wire harness and water lines coming from the two remaining pumps on the back of the reservoir, gently pull those off and lift the washer fluid tank clear
11)


BRAIN DUMP:
Short and long cap nuts on the VCs are 10NM (8 each side)
Long bolts on the VCs are 15NM (5 each side)
Ground strap bolts in VCs are 6NM (2 each side)
Valvetronic mount and motor are 6NM (4 each side)

oldskewel 06-11-2019 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplefade (Post 1164053)
...Is strange that they keyed nearly everything except the vanos, cps and O2 sensors, hmm, wonder if it was because there are 4 of each and they thought they'd really screw with us good when we finally needed to service those items... :confused:

Yes, I agree it is probably due to the parts themselves being identical / interchangeable. If they wanted to key things to distinguish left vs. right, they'd need to sell different parts for left and right sensors, and left and right cables, etc. And yes, they'd surely make us pay for the extra cost that comes with that at the cash register.

andrewwynn 06-12-2019 02:28 AM

Pull the fuel relay fuse and start the car it will suck the fuel pressure to near zero.


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