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0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed [solved]
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I was reading some existing threads here that closely followed my symptoms as I was experiencing intermittent loss of 1-2-3 gears. This issue started after I was doing some spirited driving in manual mode and would come and go intermittently with a ignition power cycle.
Can't even drive in forwards. the Trans Fail caption is illuminated. I believe that the ZF trans clutches for 1/2/3 disengaged and the trans is locked in 4th gear When in D. And still has reverse in R. When the symptom appears, 1-2-3 has no drive torque. Not slipping per say, as there is no drive engagement. When shifting into Drive, I got neutral, and once throttle input engine speed goes passed the specified maximum engine speed without wheel movement, transmission failsafe mode is engaged which shifts immediately into 4 gear, I can see it when I select manual mode. Intermittently when cold started, I had 1,2,3 gear normal shifting without any issue. Over time intermittent became permanent loss of 1-2-3 gears. And before losing the first 3 gears intermittently I was experiencing intermittent signal loss from the gear select module where I could not select between drive and reverse after starting up. There would be no square selected around either PRND. I replaced the shift select module and this issue did not return. After replacing my fluid, filter and a new valve body, I went for a test drive, and had all the gears as normal. Once I started to boot on it I lost the 1-2-3 gears and speed failsafe mode engaged. After this event, I could not get the 1-2-3 gears back even after a cold start. The torque converter is strong and there's nothing showing an issue with brake on stall speed tests. You can see it on the video when I test reverse and drive mode. Early in the video you can see after selecting 1 the engine revs up and then transmission goes to failsafe and shifts to 4, it then went to 5 just because I selected that gear with the shifter. video https://photos.app.goo.gl/cgyfTHUPdrPhUMft5 I decided to order and install a new rebuilt valve body and perform a service. I used AMS automatic transmission signature series oil, and new replacement filter. Parts List: Valve body, rebuilt, revmax V5HP24D https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Filter, PA CARGO 114710 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=1411737&jsn=1 Transmission oil, AMS ATFPK https://www.amsoil.com/p/signature-s...ion-fluid-atf/ I was really disappointed in the quality of the RevMax valve body - there was a critical and obvious flaw on re-assembly the technicians and quality checking persons didn't notice see attached photo. Furthermore ordering the part from the revmax website did not work and I could not complete their stupid forms to make my order without getting an error, so I had to order the valve body from amazon. I didn't notice the flaw on the manual selector spool valve either until I was on the final assembly stages after I had bolted it on the transmission. The spool valve to select the gears was not installed correctly so it could not connect to the driven cable from the shifter. Things I have done that follow what others suggested here based on searching for symptoms. Issue with No box around the PNRD, failsafe. CHanged the gear select module with part https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...h/24107512755/ And this particular symptom has not returned. Removed and inspected transmission harness connector, there is no corrosion on any pins. Replaced the valve body, fluid, filter. relevant codes from ista-D 0x00003B EGS: Stall speed 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed DME/DDE - 0xDC (220) DME: CAN timeout, electronic transmission management (EGS/AGS) DSC - 0x3A (58) DSC: No message from EGS control unit EGS - 0x4 (4) EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 - 0x1 (1) EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 - 0x12 (18) EGS: Solenoid valve 3 - 0x11 (17) EGS: Solenoid valve 2 - 0x10 (16) EGS: Solenoid valve 1 KOMBI - 0xFB (251) IKE: No CAN identification (EGS) - 0x8D (141) IKE: EGS signal line disturbed attachments; old valve body rebuilt valve body rebuilt valve body flaw i had to correct |
The error literally says there's a problem with the communication line. I would try to trace the loom top to bottom, start with the top side connector sounds like you checked there bottom side connector
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i only get failsafe and these two codes after the transmission is well warmed up. doesn't seem like an electrical issue to me at this point. however im open to being wrong. |
I think you have symptom and cause backwards.
The odd behavior happens after the TCU loses track of what the transmission is doing and goes into failsafe. It is reporting that the control line is unstable (can be from noise on the line or a short somewhere etc. |
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5HP24 no 1-2-3 no change after valve body replaced
The temp of the trans oil may be a coincidence. Hot electronic will fail just like you describe.
I missed if you have V8: if so look into your ebox cooling fan. Continuity unfortunately doesn't mean much on communication lines. Noise from other paralel lines etc cause problems I have read a few threads where the fix for similar headache was replacing the transmission wiring harness |
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0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 |
I would say that you have a broken or crack drum or a torn o-ring. The fluid pressure can be obtained when the fluid is cold and thick, but as the fluid warms up it loses its viscosity and can no longer maintain the fluid pressure due to the fluid leaking pass the crack drum or o-ring for the trans to operate correctly. A rebuild is in your future if you want to keep the X.
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that last one is a good idea. Maybe you can determine a particular temp it happens. If you can cool the ebox (Ice Inna Ziploc) to keep it cooler and error doesn't happen, you can home in on the defect
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I was able to open up my TCU to check for bad solder joints etc. I may have had to drill out rivets but was easy to do. I had signs of corrosion so I wanted to look inside and clean it.
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this is weird. measuring from the blue connector terminal at the transmission ECU, I have good resistance on these solenoids
MV1 pin 38,21 30.8 ohm MV2 pin 26,21 29.5 MV3 pin 16,21 30.2 if I'm getting codes for electrical faults, and the wiring and resistances are good down the harness to each of the solenoid valves, the likelyhood of a failing module is higer. |
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which I suspect is temperature dependent so the idea of a temp logger is a very good one. Clear the codes and start when cold. Drive until it faults and see what temp. Then cool the ebox with maybe a cool pack or just leaving the lid off. I've had many many cases of computers iPhones and iPads freak out when hot.
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Fault memory
SGBD BNTN code Description Vehicle mileage Is currently present? GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown its acting like not even connected as an experiment, i disconnected the 40 pins connector and ran test again Fault memory SGBD BNTN code Description Vehicle mileage Is currently present? DSC57 --- 0x00003A DSC: No message from EGS control unit --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown IKI --- 0x0000FB IKE: No CAN identification (EGS) --- Unknown ME72KWP1 --- 0x0000DC DME: CAN timeout, electronic transmission management (EGS/AGS) 65526 Unknown And reconnected the 40 pin connector at the transmission controller, then checked and re connected the 16 pin connector at the transmission. cleared and checked again for codes. GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown Measuring resistance of EDS 1 and 4 as per the fault codes; from the 40 pin connector at Transmission Control Module. EDS1 pin 28,21 7.2 ohm EDS2 7,21 6.5 ohm and, from a step above MV1 pin 38,21 30.8 ohm MV2 pin 26,21 29.5 MV3 pin 16,21 30.2 |
Determined from a 'RRPhil' diagram
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...66870195a0.jpg from another forum the commonality between MV1,MV2,MV3 and EDS1,EDS4 is a power source from the TCM pin 21 which I was not getting any voltage from, as it measured at 0V. I applied a jumper wire with Battery voltage to pin 21, deleted and retested for codes, I got a new set of faults; Fault memory SGBD BNTN code Description Vehicle mileage Is currently present? GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000053 EGS: ECU internal fault 4 (FET) --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown ME72KWP1 --- 0x0000DC DME: CAN timeout, electronic transmission management (EGS/AGS) 65526 Unknown Removing the jumper, deleting and testing codes again; Fault memory SGBD BNTN code Description Vehicle mileage Is currently present? GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown Seems like the fault is in the transmission control module. Now what ? :dunno: |
I would take a good look at the solder joints inside the TCU.
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The next day, continue, cold operation;
GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown after delete fault mem and rescan GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown remove and inspect the Printed Circuit Board for the Transmission control module Found a possible over current / shorted trace internal to the multi-layer circuit board, with some damage visible from the top side. cleaned both sides of board with deoxidizer, brakeclean. hot-aired the connector pin solder points on the back of the board. reinstall, clear codes, scan again GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown at this point based on my troubleshooting and what I have observed I am satisfied that the issue has been isolated to the control module having failed. My next question to the community is; used modules from ebay - since I have never replaced bmw modules before. can I take a used module from the 4.4 engine with 2003 year and install this, any special procedures ? attachments; damage/corrosion on PCB before and after cleaning corrosion found on dme connector |
DME is paired. I don't recall the TCU needing coding but somebody hopefully will follow up. .
The damage you show is in inline with what I was prepared to see based on your errors. Can you see where there damaged trace/s go to put a jumper around them? |
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The trans module is an EGS module. Why would you want to pair the Bluetooth module? |
5HP24 no 1-2-3 no change after valve body replaced
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fafd310097.jpg
I used the generic term because I speak English. I often call the DME the ECU also. |
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I hate when the magic smoke comes out of something. Yeah repair of inner layer traces is next level. Keep us updated it will be very helpful to know if programming the module is required.
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0 260 002 812 7 512 653 on the bosch sticker to an item on ebay with a 6 month warranty. The price of $26.99 can't be beat. Hopefully can test it out next weekend. I will be able to program it with ISTA-P if required. |
And see if you can figure out WHY the smoke leaked out. If there's a fault in the loom etc. then you'll fry the new EGS module when you fire it up, you could end up with a matching pair of dead EGS modules. :(
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Looked like water ingress. I thought I saw copper corrosion
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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Just so long as that is all it was. I suppose if it gets bad enough, verdigris can cause quite large fault currents... hence the smoke... |
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andrewwynn - there's no corrosion you're seeing. after cleaning that off, i could see the split in the PCB where the 'smoke' left that scale. There's no sign at all of water ingress on that module. |
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Is the blown trace in pin 21? You said it had no power and seems to run everything. Maybe a short on the old valve body sucked out the smoke.
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in a BMW. https://www.youcanic.com/wiki/bmw-tc...c-control-unit |
Good to know. I can see how it could be confusing. You can clearly see however that by context there was no confusion between myself and the OP who opened up his egs and took pictures after quoting back my mention of tcu v. EGS
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Got emailed back my used transmission oil sample results. There was so much iron and copper content that the lab could not perform some tests. A screenshot is attached.
ELEVATED IRON MAY BE SOURCED TO BEARINGS; GEARS; SPLINES; SHAFTS; HOUSING; NON-MECHANICAL ORIGIN. UNABLE TO TEST FOR PARTICLE COUNT (ISO CODE) DUE TO EXCESS PARTICULATE. OTHER READINGS APPEAR TO BE NORMAL. CHANGE OIL. RESAMPLE TO MONITOR. Iron 585 Copper 952 After a month of use I will re-sample the new oil, to determine if the new filter and existing mix left-over in the cooler and torque converter will become back to acceptable levels. |
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installed replacement EGS controller. scan before clearing codes
GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000030 EGS: Converter lockup clutch, excessive slip --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown after clear codes no change. use ista/p to reprogram egs. The fault memory must be deleted again for fault handling. Delete the fault memory again? DME/DDE - 0xDC (220) DME: CAN timeout, electronic transmission management (EGS/AGS) DSC - 0x3A (58) DSC: No message from EGS control unit EGS - 0x4 (4) EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 - 0x1 (1) EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 - 0x12 (18) EGS: Solenoid valve 3 - 0x11 (17) EGS: Solenoid valve 2 - 0x10 (16) EGS: Solenoid valve 1 KOMBI - 0xFB (251) IKE: No CAN identification (EGS) - 0x8D (141) IKE: EGS signal line disturbed AND cleared again... successfull ! Finished programming. Test and re-scan GS8602 --- 0x000001 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000004 EGS: Pressure actuator EDS 4 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000010 EGS: Solenoid valve 1 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000011 EGS: Solenoid valve 2 --- Unknown GS8602 --- 0x000012 EGS: Solenoid valve 3 --- Unknown IKI --- 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed --- Unknown Not sure what's going on now. Any thoughts ? I have no voltage output on pin 21 from the EGS. I took out the case from the replacement EGS module, and there was no damage like the previous part installed. It's almost like the transistor to output on pin 21 has a signal to turn off. I rechecked the resistances from the EGS harness from pin 21 to 38,28,26,16,7 and had 29 ohms on the MV's and 7 ohms on the EDS's. checked the other other three EDS' powered from pin 11, good. tested the temp sensor, and both speed sensors none were shorted either. And then I tested the main power connector the the EGS and pin 1,3 were B+ voltage 4,5,6 ground 7,8,9 B+ Anyone seen RRPhil ? The transmission guy. He shut down private messages and I can't get in contact . I looked at this bimmerforums thread but the OP said he changed the transmission controller and the problem got fixed. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...fail-safe-mode UPdate; found a clear pin-out chart from https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/Z4AE08C Which I will be using to continue the work next weekend. attachments; diagram of solenoids. serial of egs module inspection of replacement egs. printed resistance checks |
bump, what happened to RRPhil I'm trying to get in contact but he's disabled the messages
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He runs a business and I'm sure is pretty busy. Couple that with the T-Virus causing the zombie apocalypse and I assume he has a lot going on. ;)
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https://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post529069.html#529069 |
I don't know then. That retirement post is from 2017... and was his last post there. I guess he does not post on forums very often then? Not much online about his company but his home page is still up (no links on it though). Last FB page post for the business was June of '19.
At any rate, hope he's okay. |
5HP24 no 1-2-3 no change after valve body replaced
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He posts regularly to xo on transmission threads. You just have to post an interesting enough question to catch his eye. |
In the light of your oil sample test results, I think you should first attempt to establish if you have a mechanical/hydraulic fault with your transmission, for example with the A clutch.
Your 5HP24’s hydraulic system was designed in such a way that, in the event of complete electrical/electronic failure (i.e. none of the solenoids working), it engages 4th gear (A & B clutches applied) when D is selected and reverse gear (C & F clutches applied) when R is selected. To try to simulate this failure you can temporarily disconnect the 16-pin connector at the rear of the transmission. Could you maybe try this and report back whether or not your E53 successfully pulls away in 4th gear? This would tell us if the A clutch is still functioning. While you’re under there, could you also make a note of the transmission’s serial number from the green i/d plate rivetted to the LH side of the maincase, adjacent to the 16-pin connector? https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psa16eca2b.jpg Phil |
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Hi Phil, thanks for popping into this discussion. I noticed your setting to accept private messages was off :dunno:
As per the above, I'm not getting power to my solenoids due to no voltage off pin 21, therefore I have 4 gear as the only option in forwards. I have made some measurements and tests with and without the 16 pin connector plugged, as noted in my previous posts. I can entertain the driven test with the connector unplugged, but I can say with confidence I will have the same result as what I'm experiencing now. Attached is the serial plate. Quote:
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Your transmission came off the production line on 16 October 2002 so it had all the final development fixes, including the stiffened A-clutch drum. I’ve just been looking through your post from the beginning. Although I realise this isn’t the main issue under discussion here, from the photo in your first post that looks like a 328 valve body assembly that you fitted as a replacement? Can you double check the number etched into the lower rear valve block on your original photograph as the resolution of the posted photo isn’t quite high enough for me to be sure? If it is a 328 then this is the wrong unit for a 4.6is, which has to have a 353 unit because the B-clutch and E-clutch valves are different. Your upper valve block should have ‘075’ etched/stamped on it, which is a further check.
https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...pszousatxk.jpg https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psr1fod0bx.jpg https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...ps45c303bb.jpg Phil |
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So do you think I selected the wrong part (see updated first post) ? I was just trying to follow the instructions I've seen on threads posted here to select the valve body with the correct amount of coloured solenoids. Furthermore, many many times I have seen other users recommend the revmax rebuilt units. On the ordering page the part claimed to be compatible with 4.4 and 4.8 so I just assumed the 4.6 was compatible.
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old valve body lower rear valve block number old valve body upper valve block number rebuilt valve body lower rear valve block number |
The 328 valve body assembly is an old spec. with the 9mm main pressure valve land width, the old design of EDS5 damper, the earlier check valve springs, earlier restrictor orifice one-way valves, etc. The 4.8L they’re referencing is the 035 model of the 5HP24 which was used in the E39 B10/E52 Z8. They only made a total of 770 of these transmissions, but this model also used the 353 valve body assembly (the same as the E53 4.6is) so it is not the same as the 4.4L assembly. I’m not suggesting that this is the cause of your current problem, just pointing out that your valve body assembly replacement is the wrong one.
Back to the electrical/electronic stuff. The wiring diagram that you referenced earlier : https://i260.photobucket.com/albums/...psdubwimnn.jpg I actually produced for the L322 Range Rover. Obviously the E53 and L322 are close sisters but were you able to check that the pin connections are identical for the E53 from the newTIS info, because I haven’t checked this? Phil |
UPdates: Requested a return for the replacement valve body as it's the wrong one, As per RRPhil.
To do: remove the new valve body from the transmission, and install my old unit. buy and install a genuine bmw transmission filter, as per RRPhil claiming often times secondary brands can have the filter element sucked inside. measure all the solenoid and pressure regulator resistances in my existing valve body for reference. determine the canbus waveform and voltage specifications for my vehicle. start to troubleshoot the circuit and remove modules connected to the canbus until the poor signal / issue can be identified. update the graphic in the previous post with correct pin numbers and resistances for resistance tests. |
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I have not been able to make any progress on this issue, very frustrating and this is the first time i feel like I've been defeated as a mechanic, don't know what to do next except park this thing in storage. need to know for sure before sinking money on any replacement part. I absolutely, 100% and for a fact need to pinpoint the issue. Going to try these 'expert for hire' auto mechanic websites, and get a mobile bmw tech who can give a second opinion on the issue.
I did make some notes from my weekend work attempting to give one last try at troubleshooting before having to move the vehicle to storage lot. Dispite any other code, this one is the issue and is either caused by another code, or this code causes the EGS module to lockout and not sent power to the mechatronics and throw a fit. 0x00008D IKE: EGS signal line disturbed Tried in sequence order to disconnect other modules on canbus, clear codes, restart car, failsafe mode message appears, and then re-scan for codes. Disconnected: EGS, IKE, and DSC/ABS I didn't try to disconnect the DME, I didn't think of doing that because how would I start the engine. I will try it down the road but for now I need the community here to come together and give me their opinions. |
Since we have the same issue....almost.
Can you do me a favour and try to disconnect your DME then scan with ISTA? I think I may have found/learned something...when DME is connected. |
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I have yet to try to disconnect the DME and then scan. I'm going to try this two video's suggested by upallnight How to test a CAN bus network with a meter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JicbzR3Juh0 TECH TIP CAN BUS DIAGNOSTICS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YWHrTTmWE8 |
You mentioned you had EGS line disturbed .
I removed my DME and was able to clear faults on my transmission and VTG No DXC comms still. |
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Hmmm....I have the egs signal line disturbed as well. Trans is in failsafe and my egs doesn't show up either. I replaced it as well. Still nothing. Did most the electrical troubleshooting you've done. I'm stumped on this issue.
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I read that the oil level sensor can interfere with alternator; is there a similar sensor that can get shorted and bring down the buss or EGS?
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Update: I found someone's forum post for their E38 that had the identical symptoms, from searching the Deutsche text of the error codes from INPA.
https://www.7-forum.com/forum/showthread.html?t=228163 After translating to english. I determined that around the same time as this issue started, I had installed an ebay bluetooth adaptor to the back of the radio. Not sure if it had anything to do with the egs signal line disturbed though, I don't think it touched any canbus lines. But I will try to remove it and see what happens. Using INPA opening the transmission menu I wasn't able actuate any of the solenoids, so I believe the AGS controller module is still being locked out. This explains why there's no output in the transmission output shaft in drive, but the input shaft is registering rotation. The torque converter is fine because reverse is working. Quote:
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And now we have the same issue as when I started trans failsafe in 5 gear possible due to A-clutch failure or o-ring between A-B, thinking it's because the ATF is too thin so Im going to try and add some gear oil. More likely because the line pressure control solenoid is programmed to be too 'soft' and the emergency program is really triggered easily on these as they wear out. I can try hacking the thing to increase pressure and thickening the oil to get a little more out of it. That will be another thread. |
Update. I've found a used, recently rebuilt transmission and I've installed it two times after the first time destroyed the oil pump by mis-installation of the torque converter. Swapped over the first transmission's oil pump and then off we go. Will do a real update soon.
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