Front Bearing Removal Tool UPDATE PROBLEM SOLVED!
Anyone know if this tool will work with our X's?
https://www.amazon.com/ATD-Tools-862...7902880&sr=8-6 |
Yes, I just did mine last weekend. I bought it from HF, and it looks exactly like the one you posted. I will give you a couple tips. Make sure you grease the threads of that long bolt. I stripped 2 of them, my bad. Also, take out your wheel speed sensor at the beginning. I didn't on mine and broke it. Its a bitch of a job, but not too bad. Took me maybe 2 hours total.
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If you use puller with 3/4" bolt you will need to heat/freeze. With 7/8 or 1" bolt no temperature help needed.
As mentioned about stripping the 3/4"? Bolt, it's quite undersized for this job. The math worked to about 35,000# to remove and 25,000# to install. 3/4" hardened bolt it's good for about 21,000. I drilled mine out to 1" to bump that up to 62,000#. |
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You said you have 235s correct? Best way to determine if bearing is to swap to wider or smaller wheels.maybe someone has a 255/55/18 you can try.
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75 mph :
75 * 5280/3600=110 ft/sec 110/7.3=15.068 rev per sec 40/15=2.667 Should not be in the bearing nor CV axle. I would look into drive train. 4.1:1 differential. 15.068*4.1=61.779 hz so that shouldn't be it either. Do the frequency test at a different speed. I have a feeling something is causing a harmonic but weird when not at a ratio of the wheel RPM. |
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It's all connected. 2.6 x RPM of wheel is strange though did you have another frequency spike that was faster or slower just not as tall?
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Front Bearing Removal Tool
15.068*3=45.204. That is very likely the spike over to the right. Getting a distinct vibration at 3x wheel RPM, something is vibrating close to that harmonic.
39*7.3/3=94.9 feet/sec. 65 mph should make the wheel RPM 1/3 of that harmonic see if the shake dials in at that speed. It's possible the shake is just more annoying to you at 75 because higher amplitude etc. If the spikes align at an exact multiple of tire rotation it's definitely tire/wheel related. I would change the prime suspect with spare and move that around. You might have thrown a wheel weight or have an internal belt delamination issue (that happened on my Z28. A little shake finds its way into the un sprung suspension and bingo: harmonic |
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Much easier than a front bearing. I have to earn those dhc parts somehow (2 in use already. Both needed "the fix" and you timed replacing them great they were all broken they just hadn't broken in half yet.
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Update:
got the truck in to have the wheels rebalanced. As suspected 2 of them had thrown weights. One in front and one in rear. Now the vibration is WORSE. Especially under load like going up a grade. Next move will be pulling wheels and checking everything on the suspension for tightness and damage. Then I'll swap the spare on one wheel at a time and see if that has any effect. If not, my next try will be to dial the firmness on the coilovers back up to the mid-point of their range and see if that has any effect. This vibration is only really noticeable once at 60 mph and above. Waiting for the weather to cooperate. |
Front Bearing Removal Tool
I have a problem with an out of round tire. Balance won't fix. The spare swap may be your fastest find also use vibration app to locate corner. Very helpful if you have somebody else drive.
Load up a grade suggests problem in the drive train like guibo or rear diff mounts. |
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I use a front wheel bearing kit with a Harbor Freight's hydraulic pump and head to remove and install press in wheel bearings.
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Even better, but more money, would be a hollow ram. Had one of those in my cart for a few years but just can't pull the trigger!
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I have the pump and attachments but not the head to "pull" with. Can you tell us where you saw one and had in your cart?
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Just type in "hollow ram" on Amazon or E-Bay. I was going to go with the 30 ton but I think 20 ton might be enough considering the metal punch like the one in the video is only 10 tons. If you had a 4" stroke and the foot control air pump imagine how fast you could do subframe bushings! :)
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I have looked and can't find anything reasonably priced. You can get the whole kit with ram/pump at HF for less than $100. Not always in love with HF quality. I don't see any rams for less than $125. Any thoughts?
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I think it would be well worth the extra money to have double tons and the hole go through, not to mention the longer stroke and probably would never need press.
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According to amazon thats not the exact kit I bought from them but it sure looks like it. Makes doing the bearings a breeze. I was having to remove the entire hub assembly before and use my shop press. After buy a kit just like that I do the job in nothing flat time wise. Love it. |
Went and looked up the one I have its actually cheaper than the one you linked. This is what I have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
I use this to push the axles out and for anything else that wants to get stubborn.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The only drawback with it is its HEAVY. I use a jack stand to support the thing when using it. |
Astro Pneumatic Tool 78825 25-Piece Master Front Wheel Drive Bearing Puller Removal & Installer Adapter Kit W/Grade 8 Drive Bolt https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JBK2OJO..._ADG6FbX6NM7V9
This is the one I recommend. The HF and the rest on Amazon use a 3/4 bolt I estimate grade 5 hardness (I've chewed up 3-5 of them on x5 front bearings). Rated 24,000# clamping force. It takes considerably more to remove front X5 bearing. My first one estimated 35,000 The 7/8 bolt in the kit above is rated 46,000# and will tackle the bearing no problem. I upgraded mine to 1" bolt for the bigger plates but use a 3/4" rod for the smaller ones. I was not able to find a threaded rod grade 8 and after smoking 3-4 of the grade 5, I went right to 1" grade 8; 61,000# at advised torque. Lubricated torque on the 7/8" is 500 ft·lb, achievable with a pipe and breaker bar but enough to possibly break the bar: definitely use grease and also bronze thrust bushing I bought a thin bronze thrust bushing; learn from my goof do not get 1/16" thick one. It squirted out from the bolt liked Play-Doh. Wish I had video of it : that was hilarious. Came out in little wedges like tiny pizza slices. |
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Looks awesome, don't see how it will help with the bearing but last bearing change the hardest part was getting the axle out of the hub and that would work great! |
Yesterday I did some data gathering. I put the spare on one corner at a time and then did runs at various speeds using a vibration app. The following is what I got:
All measurements are in Hertz Spare on Left Front 50 mph: 1.56, 2.34, 1.95 60 mph: 49.61, 1.17, 1.56 65 mph: 1.95, 47.27, 2.34 70 mph: 42.97, 30.47, 2.34 75 mph: 38.28, 38.67, 2.34 60 mph: 2.34, 1.56, 1.17 70 mph: 1.95, 42.58, 41.8 75 mph: 39.45, 39.06, 39.84 60 Mph: 49.61, 49.22, 36.33 Spare on Right Front: 40 mph: 33.98, 1.17, 2.34 50 mph: 1.53, 1.17, 2.34 60 mph: 1.95, 1.17, 38.67 65 mph: 1.95, 38.28, 35.94 70 mph: 43.36, 42.97, 30.86 75 mph: 44.92, 38.67, 27.27 60 mph: 2.34, 1.17, 1.95 75 mph: 44.92, 40.23, 39.84 Spare on Right Rear: 40 mph: 1.56, 34.77, 2.34 50 mph: 1.95, 42.19, 1.17 60 mph: 2.73, 2.34, 3.91 65 mph: 1.17, 1.56, 2.34 70 mph: 42.19, 1.56, 1.95 75 mph: 39.06, 1.95, 21.88 60 mph: 1.95, 39.06, 2.34 70 mph: 42.58, 42.97, 42.19 Spare on Left Rear: 60 mph: 1.95, 1.56, 1.17 65 mph: 1.95, 35.16, 46.88 70 mph: 1.95, 2.34, 1.17 75 mph: 44.53, 1.95, 39.06 60 mph: 1.53, 2.34, 2.73 70 mph: 42.19, 29.69, 42.58 The vibration is definitely worse at higher speeds and under load. It vibrates and the vibration decreases noticeably when coming off the throttle. It feels like sort of a wobble side to side as well as a vibration. I checked my guibo and it looks to be basically in good shape except for micro crack. The center bearing looks ok, but I'm not sure how much movement is normal. It does move a fair amount, but I don't see any damage to the rubber. I can't tell the condition of the CV. Hopefully someone has an idea as to cause as I am about to load up the parts cannon. Drive line guibo, center bearing and CV are first up for replacement. Thanks for any help and suggestions! |
At 70 mph the tire rotates 14.06 hz.
14.06*3=42.18. Damned close to one of the repeating vibrations but I think the CV axle has 5-6 ball races. Since the vibration didn't seem to follow the spare I don't think it's bearing or suspension other than possibly any spring component that has a resonance approx 42-43hz and a minor wheel out of balance matching it. The key to me is the "under power" That screams "drive train". Step one; get to reproduce at a lower speed say 40-45 and on a particular Hill on a particular curve up hill slight acceleration. Once you can find a way to reproduce it (use m/s to force repeatable RPM), then use a different gear everything else the same. You want to exclude the transmission as the source. If you get the same shudder at the same speed rise (40 up to 45 as example), even when in different gears it's not likely in the transmission. 14.06*4.1=57.646 (that should be the speed of the drive shafts at 70 mph, which should exclude the guibo unless divide by 3 or 6: 57.65/3=19.217 57.65/6=9.608 Those would be the suspect values for guibo at 70. You said the csb had some wiggle to it? That doesn't sound right. When I removed and replaced on the e92 I service, I don't recall any wiggle i could impart myself. If you can move the shaft sideways by hand or even a small prybar I think you've found the culprit. |
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Front Bearing Removal Tool
Like the front tension strut bushings, the guibo can have some pretty big tear that looks like a hairline.
My bet is CSB and that 43hz is it's tuning fork natural resonance. Wife's car will shudder sometimes going up a freeway onramp and I've been suspecting either csb or front diff (guess which one I hope it is). |
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Any update? I'm about to put my new CV axle and refurbished hub back in today. I thought my wishbone arms were spent but the random shudder I got in the steering while braking seemed like it was the bearing which had wobble in it before I replaced it. Had overheated to the point where the bearing cage and outer seal was melted!
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I checked my front wheels for movement with truck up on stands and there is a slight amount of movement, but nothing that would be likely to cause the vibration I've been getting. Still hoping it's not a wheel bearing. |
Wifes X5 vibrates like hell under load or in a turn when the control arm that goes from the front of the car to the hub gets worn. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. The symptoms scream bad wheel bearing when it wears out but there isn't any vibration at a given speed like a wheel bearing. Brakes and turning at speed causes the vibration on hers. Again may not be the culprit but that was what I run into allot on her X5.
The way I spotted it was by not jacking up the car and having someone turn the wheel while watching what has play in it. |
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Front Bearing Removal Tool
I've had a mystery shudder in my steering for a long time. It would be most obvious during gentle braking near 50 mph which screams wishbone control arm (side vs. front). I even bought an OEM set to install but then wife's X5 developed the same issue but 10x worse so I put the arms on her car since mine was intemittent anyhow.
How a ball joint cures itself for many months at a time is still a mystery. Anyhow my moron mechanic* didn't replace a torn CV boot and that of course led to outer CV joint failure and other than crunchy left turns it also would cause steering wobble once in a great while. Meanwhile the left front wheel bearing went out so I finally got enough fire lit under my ass to fix a bunch of shit and when I took out the bearing I noticed there was play in the bearing left/right which could have been the source of that mystery wobble. Additional evidence is the left front brake pads were far far more worn which would align with grabby brake causing steering shimmy and also bearing not rigid allowing the rotor to wobble going though the caliper. New axle installed into refurbished hub, new rotor installed about to install the new pads and I can finally have fully functioning brakes. Wait until you see the state of the old left pads! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ff7fa3dc43.jpg Zoom in; there is pad material on the worn pad! There is about 3x as much on the right side pads. Enough left I'll toss in the trunk in case something similar happens in the future. I will also check the right front pads occasionally since no sensor over there. I'm considering adding one in if I can figure out if I need to wire in series or parallel. Now that I've personally experienced one side wearing far far faster than the other. |
Summary; I think your gut may have been tuned correctly and i think you can non-destructively assess the situation.
I didn't notice the play in my bearing until after I loosened the axle nut! Once I did the hub wobbled liked crazy! Loosen the axle nut a few and tap the axle to un-snug it from the inside bearing race. (remove the abs sensor first; don't ask me to admit why I know that's important). With the rotor on use clean gloves and see if you can wobble the hub. I can do the test on my brand new axle/rotor combination before I finish my brakes today. |
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That is the new pad. The worn right pad had about 3x the material of the left pads. I think my bearing was worn enough I was actually getting a small amount of thank toe change. (after replacing bearing my steering wheel is centered differently than before). Haven't driven fast enough to test for shimmy yet but have new meyle HD arms already on hand. Today get to bleed the brakes then do some test driving on the freeway and some firm braking. I'll try to get the left vs. right brake pad photo. It was as different as the wear on the Alternator slip rings. I'm hoping I'm correct that it was the bearing the whole time. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...94131f0c6f.jpg The shimmy may have also been from this destroyed CV outer joint. I was entirely convinced I would see d&d dice shaped bearings when I opened that up but didn't see any problem with the bearings just lots of debris in there. I think I'll do a clean flush with brake clean to determine if that's the case. It means that likely if you have a crunchy CV joint you could likely clean and repack to punt replacement. I drove for about half a year on mine after I already planned to replace it. |
Front Bearing Removal Tool
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That's very odd. My wife's e53 front bushings were so worn that the wheels moved over half an inch when hitting the brakes yet no shimmy at any speed or any braking. Every time I've had shimmy it was the sideways wishbone control arms. (Until my car which seems like was the bearing). I just discovered a new way to test the bearing which is described above. |
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Wheel bearing is like $35. Once you have the right tool it's not difficult to change. Do the process I described earlier to check the bearing. (and will repeat here). When I just replaced my bearing I noticed no slop in the bearing/hub until I loosened the axle nut. Once that was loose and I tapped the axle in a few mm so the axle wasn't clamping the bearing tight holy crap was the bearing sloppy. I could twist it off axis with one hand from just the hub over a degree. I wish I took a video. When I pressed in the new bearing and the hub into that, I could barely detect any off axis motion whatsoever. Also after getting it all back together I noticed my steering wheel is now more centered when driving straight indicating that almost certainly the bearing was twisting while driving and when braking occasionally would wobble like a bad shopping cart wheel. I haven't speed tested yet to confirm if the braking shimmy has also been cured but the wishbone arms looked in perfect condition when I was doing the axle/bearing/brake job this week |
So I installed a new CSB and flex disk. It made no difference. I Continue to have the vibration and wobble. The car feels like it is shaking side to side some as well as the vibration. The higher the speed, the worse the vibration. I'm at a loss. I think I'm going to take it to my indy and pay for a diagnosis.
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Just curious if you swapped front tires to rear? Eliminate the wheels and tires from the equation. :dunno:
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Ah gotcha. I assumed you felt the vibration and wobble in the steering wheel. My E46 went through this and is was the u-joint at the end of the driveshaft. :dunno:
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That sure sounds like a bad tire or maybe a bad suspension bushing. You say you checked the front control arm links?
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I had weird random shimmy would come and go for 20 months. I assumed it was lower control arms and already have replacement.
However when I was changing my CV axle and bearing I noticed a couple odd things: 1. After removing the axle from the hub noticed the hub had a ton of wobble (meaning bearing was no longer solid) 2. The brake pads on that side were far far more work than the other side. 3. After installing new bearing the steering wheel suddenly closer to straight Soo: I'm pretty sure the bearing had play for a long time before it started to howl. I put the spare tire on to squelch the howl for a few months until finally enough stars aligned to get the part replaced. I expected and still may need to replace the control arms I should know today after I get my replacement replacement alternator hooked up (thankfully warranty and they let me change back to valeo after two Bosch units failed on me) |
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You could barely feel the slightest notch when rotating the u-joint by hand. I would never have thought that little tiny notch would cause so much vibration on my E46 but it was. I tried the CSB first but no love, it was better but still there. Replaced the driveshaft and all was well again. Definitely horrible under load but still vibrated over 70MPH on the freeway.
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70 is about 103 ft/sec out tires are 5.7' circumference so 103/5.7=18.07 Hz at 70. 18*4.1=73.8 Hz aka 73.8*60=4428 RPM. That's definitely fast enough to be a problem with a small weight off balance.
I'm a little concerned about the possibility of under load causing an issue but that would be very similar to my theory of my under braking causing vibration. Do you get UFO noises when backing up? |
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Driveshaft shake should be about 74hz on the vibration app but I don't know if it goes that high.
Use this app or similar to get an audio reading:. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fft/id298840058 |
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I'll try this other. Thanks! |
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UFO sound comes from differential. Mostly noticable in reverse.
My bearing was silent for years but the suspect in my wobble/shimmy. I will know soon just swapped alternator and ready to test drive. |
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ee3dc09197.jpg
Here is an example from the FFT program. You can drag out a cursor to figure out exactly where the Spike is. You can also change the ex and Y axis so you can zoom in on a particular frequency range. |
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Yes it goes along the line of trying to test for a loose ball joints in the front suspension you cannot make enough push my hands to compete with natural forces. That little catch Overboost called a notch under no load if you can feel it all you can imagine the amount of force on that drive shaft under load and multiply how much more obvious that little bump will be. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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Do the test I described where you loosen the axle nut, tap the axle in a few mm (leave nut on just loosen a couple turns) and check for play. My bearing which was silent with 235 tires but howled with 255s was stiff even with rotor on was wobbly even with just the hub once I removed the axle. That reminds me; usually I can knock out the hub in a minute with a slide hammer but this time it was a beast to remove! It's so much easier to remove with a bearing separator plate and 55-60 mm M14-1.5 bolts. |
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Under load and not a high frequency moan/howl suggests CV axle. Does it change which steering input? Find a hill you can reproduce the sound/vibration and see if you can get it to change by steering pay the centerline.
Did you ever hear small tick tick sounds driving slow? (that's a guibo) The CV I think it's six bearings so 3/revolution is off by two. If you get a spike at 6x revolution I would expect CV to be the source. Have you ever had to change boot? Are CV Original (or recently changed) |
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I had a new axle installed on the right front a little less than 2 years ago. 23,000 miles on it. My indy did it. Don't know brand. Left front I haven't done anything with as long as I've been driving it. About 97,000 miles. Truck has 256,000 miles on it. |
Than my official top suspect is the left CV axle.
Six balls per revolution your vibration is close to 3x tire rev I'm suspecting you are getting a harmonic. If a FFT shows a sound close to 6x RPM of the wheel it's very likely. |
Update: went through my entire suspension system and checked torque on everything. Everything was to spec. The driver's side coilover preload was loose, so I went and re-preloaded the front coil overs. Checked my front drive shaft flex disk. It's almost new and looks to be in good shape. Checked the shaft to see if I could get it to move around side to side and it doesn't. I checked the movement on the front dif by rotating from resistance to resistance. It was about 9mm of slop. Anyone know what the lash spec is supposed to be? I couldn't find it. Also, anyone know what size allen wrench is needed for the fill and drain plugs?
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Another Update: I think I finally found my problem. Had things apart again yesterday to swap in control arms to see if I had a ply bushing failure. Discovered that the left front interior CV is shot. It allows excessive movement in and out. I can move the brake disc in and out about an inch! Put the wheel back on and, of course, movement at the tire is even worse. Checked it against the right front. Right front doesn't move. Makes sense. It's part of the drive line and the problem is worse under load and when turning. Ordered a new axle assembly. Will update after I get it installed. Fingers crossed.
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Something doesn't make sense. the cv joint has nothing to do with the brake disk/hub moving? That's all axle bearing and the nut holding it together.
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I had shake and shudder on and off for over two years just random times. Changed the axle and bearing and all is well.
The inner joint is designed to telescope but not the outer joint however after seeing the inside of the inner joint it would be very easy to expect that to be the cause. More interesting in your case and you will like this: recall how i the outer joint had six balls so that worked out pretty well with the 3x wheel speed and would mean a harmonic? The inner joint has THREE wheels and would mean you should get 3x wheel speed for your vibration. I would say nearly 100% certain you found the source. There was a small error in perfection as I think there math worked to like 2.7-2.8x per tire revolution but I think I may have forgotten to subtract the 3mph from the speedometer. 2.8/0.96=2.917 that's even closer! |
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If it is the outer CV joint that is moving in and out, you can just buy a new CV joint and replace it and keep your original axle. |
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I think he meant rotate? Clearly the brake rotor can't move left/right relative to the car axis when it's captive in the caliper etc. Anyhow, slop in the inner CV could very definitely be the cause of a drive train vibration that is worse under load and the coincidence of 3x wheel rotation is amazingly strong. |
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Suddenly my car is just shaking like crazy feels like all four wheels are off balance like a full pound.
Maybe it’s weather related. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...856673c6b0.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...418dbf57af.jpg Yeah I guess I didn’t pack the snow in quite evenly enough. |
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It's a balmy 18° I can't use water to spray out the remaining snow and ice so I had a pretty jiggly ride home last night. I have a friend with a heated garage so I may be making a visit there
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Yep but would only work if removing the wheels to get inside. I also have map gas torch which outputs 20-30x the heat but it's at a job site an hour away so maybe I will jiggle my way there tomorrow and fix with the torch. I knocked out most of the snow/ice half way home from Chicago last night since I had a max speed of 50 before making that pit stop. I've had the snow in wheel shake many times over the years but usually the temp is close enough to freezing I just spray off with a pressure washer. Not the greatest idea at 7° F even 18° it is today. |
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That's exactly what I usually use. Just not at 7° because I just end up with layer of ice that is going to be off balance.
i got most out with snow scraper last night so I could get home and tomorrow I'll probably just borrow a heated garage for a few hours. |
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Confirmed what we thought. It was a bad inner CV. Really bad. It was essentially without grease. See photos. Looks like there's even some rust in there. So grease got out and water got in. Couldn't figure out how. Went all over the boot and there were no cracks. :dunno: Installed new axle and no more shakes or vibrations. A heck of a lot quieter up there than it has been in quite awhile. Thanks for everyone's input, especially Andrew. The help with the vibration measurements really helped narrow things down.
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Woah! thank you for finding the culprit and posting pictures. That's crazy!
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Front Bearing Removal Tool UPDATE PROBLEM SOLVED!
Wow that’s awesome. When the math worked out to Three times the wheel revolution then I realize that there’s three lobes in that in the CV joint I was pretty confident that was the source.
Wowser though that is a real mess. I thought my outer joint was a disaster just because it was full of gravel. I still had grease in it I was surprised. But wow on this inner joint and how amazing the relatively subtle vibration for how rusting it is wow! |
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