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-   -   V8 4.4i Weird Tranmission Problem - Failsafe and Noise (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/89728-v8-4-4i-weird-tranmission-problem-failsafe-noise.html)

thetechguy 10-21-2012 07:29 PM

V8 4.4i Weird Tranmission Problem - Failsafe and Noise
 
I have read lots of other transmission problems on the forum but think mine is a bit different.

I have a 2002 E53 Auto 4.4i X5.

I was driving through the city when all of a sudden the failsafe came on and I only have 3rd or 4th gear.

Tacho + Speedo died, ABS + DSC lights came on.

Got home, left the car and tried to restart 4 hours later and works fine.

When the transmission is cold I can drive for 3 - 5 mins maybe, but as soon as it warms up the failsafe kicks in and if I put the transmission in drive or reverse while holding the brake it make a loud whining noise, similar to a power steering pump.

I have never had any slip, the car did have a slight kick in down gearing from 2nd to 1st.


I did scan the car with a launch scanner and got terminal 30 error, and CAN messages.

I am thinking that maybe the oil is full of crap and putting strain on the transmission's pump and that could be causing the failsafe.

A mechanic friend of mine suggested the clutches could be worn and the debris is in the oil and blocking the pump but if they were worn wouldn't the transmission slip?

SlickGT1 10-21-2012 08:08 PM

You sure it's not the alternator giving you over voltage. Search alternator and transmission for similar issues. Monitor your voltage first. Link in my sig will show you how to do that. Report back voltage you get.

thetechguy 10-21-2012 08:15 PM

Hi Slick,

Thanks for the reply, I have tested battery and alternator, I have the load tester and battery is excellent and alternator is showing 14.6V from memory while running.

I initially did think it was electrical but after hearing the noise coming from the transmission I was sure it had to be mechanical.

TriX5 10-21-2012 09:03 PM

Most likely your torq converter is toast and the gear box is full of trash coming from the TC. There is a bearing in the TC, when it breaks it spits shavings int the fluid stream which get stuck in the valve body. At that point the VB stops working as designed and most likely blows a couple of o-rings.

Mine was making a grinding/whining noise and I took it out, refurbed it. Now have 12,000 miles on it and still working.

Good luck on the fix.

SlickGT1 10-21-2012 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetechguy (Post 903124)
Hi Slick,

Thanks for the reply, I have tested battery and alternator, I have the load tester and battery is excellent and alternator is showing 14.6V from memory while running.

I initially did think it was electrical but after hearing the noise coming from the transmission I was sure it had to be mechanical.

Yea I realized the noise part, but wasn't yet ready to say the TC was toast. Trix5 is right about a dead TC toasting your trans. My logic is that you manage to drive before you get the error. Then your entire cluster fails. Then the fact that 14.6v is way, way too high. Alternator producing over voltage like that can make everything sound and act strange.

thetechguy 10-21-2012 11:31 PM

Thanks guys,

TriX5,
My trans doesn't grind it make a noise like fluid rushing very fast but certainly no grinding, is this the same noise your herd?

SlickGT1,
I will double check the voltage tonight, what should it be at idle?

SlickGT1 10-21-2012 11:59 PM

Idle under load, like lights and stereo, you should stay between 13-14.1 max. I am more curious of your voltage while driving, right when the trans failsafe and cluster failure happen.

thetechguy 10-22-2012 01:48 AM

Also does anyone know if the ZF 5HP24 transmission from a Land Rover Discovery will suit an X5?

IanP 10-22-2012 02:37 AM

Try dropping the sump pan doing an oil and filter change on the box. If there is a major problem then you will see the debris, and if it is toast then you will have only wasted a bit of time and money.

thetechguy 10-22-2012 06:22 PM

Thanks Ian, I just got a service kit yesterday and was hoping that I might be able to get away with a service.

Jordo 10-22-2012 06:45 PM

I got my 2002 4.6 two years ago, and my TC was trashed. I got trany refurbished at $3200 or somthing around there.
My wife has been driving my X lately. And today she described very simular symptoms as OP. No surging at low, consistent speed, like before and she also got "some type of brakes or something it said".... lol, typical wife responce.

Slick GT1... I assume I can run jumpers from battery to my meter while driving to see over voltage???

Jordo 10-22-2012 06:53 PM

I've interrogated wifey (lol) to find out exactly what transpired. She now remembers a "battery" symbol illuminated in the dash.... Hmmm maybe I'm over or under charging too...?

Jordo 10-22-2012 09:39 PM

So I did the test that I found on slickGT1's sig. It was exactly what I needed to know! Thanks for that! I did the volt test.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/u...BF6338410C.jpg

^ notice that its running with a whooping 10.6v!

So is this as simple as a new altinator? Or do I need a regulator rectifier?

Thanks guys

SlickGT1 10-23-2012 10:23 AM

Hi Jordo, long time.

I am going to presume that your car starts fine every time. If so, your problem is at the alternator. I am not sure you will be able to get away with a simple voltage regulator fix. You might be in for an ALT. More so if you had shit leaking on it. From experience, if you had a coolant leak, or any oil leak onto the alt, it gets cooked on the coils and fries them. Take that sucker out and see if you can get someone local to bench test the regulator and the coils. If you just want to buy one, I suggest stay away from reman units. They always die right after the shitty warranty period, and cost around half of a brand new unit.

If you want to buy new, contact this guy. Tell him you are from Xoutpost, <-this is important. His prices can't be beat. He likes honoring "clubs".

Craig Hacker
Fixed Operations Director
BMW of Bloomfield
Direct 973-780-9551
[email protected]
BMW NJ dealer in Bloomfield New Jersey selling new BMWs, used BMWs in Essex county, north Jersey area

Jordo 10-23-2012 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 903456)
Hi Jordo, long time.

I am going to presume that your car starts fine every time. If so, your problem is at the alternator. I am not sure you will be able to get away with a simple voltage regulator fix. You might be in for an ALT. More so if you had shit leaking on it. From experience, if you had a coolant leak, or any oil leak onto the alt, it gets cooked on the coils and fries them. Take that sucker out and see if you can get someone local to bench test the regulator and the coils. If you just want to buy one, I suggest stay away from reman units. They always die right after the shitty warranty period, and cost around half of a brand new unit.

If you want to buy new, contact this guy. Tell him you are from Xoutpost, <-this is important. His prices can't be beat. He likes honoring "clubs".

Craig Hacker
Fixed Operations Director
BMW of Bloomfield
Direct 973-780-9551
[email protected]
BMW NJ dealer in Bloomfield New Jersey selling new BMWs, used BMWs in Essex county, north Jersey area


LOL, it has been a while. I got a e36 as my project car, so that pretty much eats up my fourm time, lol.
X does start up each time, so I agree battery is prolly not the issue. After I inspected the alt in the day light... I can see my leaky ass valve covers have been drooling on it.

I HATE doing something twice do to short cuts the first time, so I'll just go new. Imma hit up your guy for parts for sure.

Thanks a TON for your time and effort to not just help me, but everyone who comes across this thread.

SlickGT1 10-24-2012 07:53 AM

:thumbup::thumbup:
Where is the pic of the 3 series?

RRPhil 10-25-2012 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetechguy (Post 903173)
Also does anyone know if the ZF 5HP24 transmission from a Land Rover Discovery will suit an X5?

The Disco was never fitted with the 5HP24.

It may be worth pointing out that there are 27 variants of the 5HP24 transmission which use five different transmission maincases. A Jaguar or BMW 5HP24 car transmission cannot be made to fit the E53 because the back end of the casing is designed to accommodate attachment to the transfer box. Similarly the Range Rover casing is different to the E53s because the transfer boxes are different (single range NV125 vs two range NV225). The 034 model of the 5HP24 used in the 4.6iS is uprated to manage higher torques than the 029 model used in the 4.4i. These two transmissions aren't therefore interchangeable either.

Phil

thetechguy 10-27-2012 06:24 AM

Okay I have an update,

SlickGT1 I have tried to do the voltage test as by using the method in your signature link, I could not do the test as every time I start the car I get the fail safe message.

I did connect my battery/ alternator tester to the car while running and I got 14.2V, I might try your method again when my car is cold so I can get a better reading.

I also dropped the tranny sump and did a service,and including new oil and filter, 4L of oil came out and 6L went back in so it was low. The power steering like noise is also still there.

I am still getting the fail safe message when the car is warm, the old oil was very black but did not smell burnt, it was the same as any trans that I have serviced over the years.

Funny thing is when I drive the car the warning light goes away every now and again although the trans fail safe message remains on and I am stuck in third gear.

The trans actually shifts better now with new oil,

Anyone got any ideas? I think I might be up for a tranny :-(

thetechguy 10-27-2012 08:11 PM

I was able to do the voltage test using the dash method and I got 13.3V ~ 13.5V while driving. Is that an acceptable voltage?

SlickGT1 10-27-2012 08:57 PM

That seems to be in the acceptable range. Have you tried finding someone to scan your car. By scan I mean GT1/DIS.

Just for reference, my car stays at 13.8-14.1 lights on, radio on, climate, and music for my daughter.

Did you do the test with load. You should.

thetechguy 10-29-2012 07:32 PM

Hi Slick,

I did the test with everything on and I got 13.1V, is this to low?

I just find it really weird how I can drive the car but as soon as I turn it off then back on I get the trans message.

SlickGT1 10-30-2012 01:30 PM

Does it never go over 13.1? It is not drastic, but not good. Is this with load on? Like lights and stereo, and AC. If that is without load you have issues. And is it 13.1 while driving?

nezarnuaimat 10-30-2012 02:31 PM

I got similar message (TRANS. FAIL SAFE PROG) when I suddenly push fuel pedal too far for fast acceleration (just before kick down click). And then, the car goes accelerating very slowly.
However, when I stop engine & remove key, then start it again, msg disappears and does not appear unless I again push fuel pedal hardly. It never appears during grandma driving.
I checked my voltage (thanks to SlickGT1); found it 12.1 when engine switched off; ranging from 13.2 to 13.7 when running with lights/ radio/ AC conditioning.

What do you think guys?

E53 4.4, 2002, 265,000 Km

SlickGT1 11-01-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nezarnuaimat (Post 904577)
I got similar message (TRANS. FAIL SAFE PROG) when I suddenly push fuel pedal too far for fast acceleration (just before kick down click). And then, the car goes accelerating very slowly.
However, when I stop engine & remove key, then start it again, msg disappears and does not appear unless I again push fuel pedal hardly. It never appears during grandma driving.
I checked my voltage (thanks to SlickGT1); found it 12.1 when engine switched off; ranging from 13.2 to 13.7 when running with lights/ radio/ AC conditioning.

What do you think guys?

E53 4.4, 2002, 265,000 Km

I think your tranny is toast. Sorry bud. Get it checked out by a good mech to make sure.

hoaesq 11-01-2012 01:02 PM

Hey folks,

My 2 cents. I have a 2005 4.4 with approx. 85k. I had similar problems (ABS, Trans fail, DSC . . . ) lights on when driving with traffic and no traffic - tranmission seemed like it totally shut down. It happened a couple of time last year then went away . . . until a few weeks ago. It happened everyweek no matter what I did.

Initially I thought it could be a tranmission problem and then search this forum and got tons of great information (possible causes - alternator/batery, ABS module or transfer case module). Checked the battery (was good), checked the alternator/votage (was good - 14.+ range - no spikes). Very frustrated at this point. It finally got to a point where it happend everytime I tried driving.

I found an Indy in my area that was a BWM specialist and had them check and clear the error codes - we wanted to create a baseline. Once cleared, drove the X5 off and headed home - BAM! - same crap again. Headed back to the Indy the next day (this time no issues - maybe the error codes cleared themselves) and had them check and clear the code again. We compared the inital read with the second and notice "votage" issues listed in a couple of areas on both reads. They decided to hook up a votage reader to the X and drove it around for the day. Some issues appeared and they noticed a spike (17+ - this is not as much as I have read others received when they had similar issues but it was a spike nontheless).

I had them clear the codes again and took the car home - no errors during the drive home. Next day I purchased a new alternator and replaced the old unit. I haven't had this issue since. This has been 4 weeks now and the Indy and I are confident it was the alternator.

Unfortunately today my battery died (7 years old) so off to O'reilly auto parts.

Best of luck.

nezarnuaimat 11-01-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickGT1 (Post 904835)
I think your tranny is toast. Sorry bud. Get it checked out by a good mech to make sure.

Oh yeah. I've already talked to a mechanic who tested & said I need to open it up to know what's inside ...


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