Goodbye E70 :(
 

Gentlemen, and Michelle and others of female variety ;)

I am sad to announce that I am trading in my 2007 Space Grey/Camel E70 3.0si .......
I have been deliberating over this decision over that last few weeks which is why I have not been active in the forums.
Why you ask?....well here goes:

1. Build quality of this E70 is way better than the original E53 which I also had....tight fit and finish BUT........its made in USA and it shows....I have had rattles everywhere, gaps between door panels have been horribly off ( despite there being so called Quality Assurance after production ) and electronics which have a mind of their own...I refer to IDRIVE of course...e.g Nav freezes and whole system restarts itself on the move, backup camera works intermittently.......yes I could take it back to dealer , but after paying almost $81k ...should I really have to??
When BMW spends millions on R&D, how can they miss such things??? Do the vehicles they test MAGICALLY have no issues till a NON BMW employee drives one??? Im disappointed at the lack of advance in the electronics field......yes i know its a DRIVERS car and electronics are secondary, and they have come up with lots of newer tech that other manufacturers dont have and copy, but come on BMW...even the CD player looks like its never been touched in R&D.
This all sounds negative but there has to be constructive criticism to improve any product.

2. I bought the vehicle right after I traded in my 2006 E90 330i.....what a car that was....and I bought the X5 because I commute a lot in the winter and needed a safe, and luxurious SUV.....X5...perfect....but I miss the power...I realise that is what I was missing despite all the luxury and styke of the E70......I could have gone with the 4.8i but transmission issues, all the above point 1 and knowing it was a US built car in the back of my head drove me away....not to mention that gas guzzling 4.8.
Also I find myself even as a family man, driving this thing alone....waste of space...guests we have very few of, family in UK and my wife and son and I are the only ones who sit in X5.....to use it as a daily run around is I think not a common occurrence and we dont do it either and use our '06 accord, so I also found it not being used as much esp due to gas consumption too.

3. I also felt the 3.0si engine underpowered for such a big SUV....the same engine in the X3 felt just right and was a rocket !

Overall the X5 excited me to start but reliability down the line, US built, eletronic issues, fuel economy and build quality were the reasons I let go of "Big Bertha" ( our name for our E70 ).

Whats more...the vehicle I am trading it in for is reason enough to change....

E92 335i COUPE + winter tire package.......! What a car that is.....I have an accord as mentioned ( family car ) so I can afford to have a 2 door ( 4 seater ) coupe......so today I signed the papers and get my GERMAN MADE baby at end of July !

I honestly hope you guys get chance to drive an X5 that is rumoured to have the 335i engine in it for MY 2008....its a rocket and beast !

Plus the 335i engine has just won "Engine of the Year" award.....cant remember where but nice going Germany !

It will be sad to see her go, but the car to arrive will clean those tears right up !

I wish all you current and future E70 owners success and prosperity in your SUV's and hope that my little rant does not in anyway spoil the enjoyment of your vehicles.

I would be interested to know however how many on this forum have also honestly thought about changing to something else....many will say not at all, but I have a feeling that some of the perfectionists out here who are particular having spent $60k + will have at some time thought about the quality of the vehicle.

I would say sorry to hear it but I'm never sorry to hear that someone has made a positive move. Actually i begin to think about it a week ago. Not for the same reasons just toying around with a change but i'm not sure what that change will be. Just might be a 3 series as well I don't know. Even considered a 7 series but i haven't done the research.

I hope you will be happy with the choice and i look forward to your comments on your new ride and pictures too. Be safe.

I agree with the quality issues. I don't own an E70 (have an E53) but have already 'broken' two rear hatches on ones I have looked at in dealers (ie: the soft close stopped working on one and on another the hatch latch got jammed! I also think the plastics are not up to E53 standards. All that said I would still upgrade if I had the chance!

Luke Jenner

Well good luck in the future! I guess I was a lucky one with the E53 because I have only had a handful of issues.

i understand what u mean.. ive been waiting for this new X5
 

for last 2 years and i decide not to pull the trigger. i own a 01 x5 3.0 and love it but after seeing the new one i wasnt as excited as i thought i would be.... i ask myself should i blow $62k for a new one or just keep mine. i hate reading all this negative stuff about the new one but i know no car or truck is perfect.. just to many issues so far.. i love the x5 cause i know no other sav drives like it and thats the part thats killing me in buying another brand..i'll wait for 08 for now and see if anything changes for the better.. i wont hold my breath...

that's too bad man....my build quality on my E70 vs. my E53 is much better, way above average. You do know that the X5 will be getting the 335i engine in '08, right? Maybe quality will improve by then (but I think you just got a bad one).
Good Luck.

Wow, what a shame you have had such a bad experience. You must have taken a nasty hit to make this trade, I hope it is worth it.
Personally, I have not experienced any of these issues (4,000 miles 3.0si) and feel I have a solid vehicle, that I look forward to driving every day.
If the dealer offered me my full purchase price back to trade this in, I would decline...I am that satisfied.

Very sorry you have had such a bad experience, but it sounds like you have a lemon....hopefully someone else does not buy this back from the dealer and have the same experiences. But, then I guess that is exactly what is going to happen...shame your X cant go back to the factory.

Sorry to hear about your problems, you must have taken a beating on the trade in!!

Sorry to hear about the problems that you have had. I have had mine for two months and the only QC problem that I had is a scratched windshield - did not notice it for 3 weeks. It was replaced without question.

That said, the 335 is a beast. I would see no reason to wait for the M3, I could get enough demerit points with the linear power of that E92. My brother-in-law who sells Mercedes cries every time I mention the 335 - they have nothing like it. In fact my wife is talking about trading her 5er for one.

Enjoy the 335.

Interesting. Two questions:

1.) Where do you think your Accord was made?
2.) What exactly does Canada produce?

Thanks..

Sorry to hear about the issues!! Will you be changing your name to 330i2X52335i ?

Too bad to read, but I understand: you have to like/love
your car. Hope the hit isn't too severe...

I do think the "USA made" connotation was over done, however...
GL,mD

Unfortunately the OPs experience is not rare. Your experience with no problems puts you in the minority.

Check out the results of this poll http://www.xoutpost.com/x5-e70-forum/...time-shop.html

2/3rds of E70 owners are having problems with theirs which require a visit to the shop.

I wanted an 07 E70, but because of the numorous problems posted on this forum, bimmerfest, and others, I am waiting at least until '08MY. I sure hope BMW gets their act together by then.

bottom line: its just a three series. think about it......

I wouldnt exactly be sure if the poll is a general view. Of the 30 respondants only about 20 seem to have a little more of a problem. There must be 1000's of happy customers that dont get to see the forum, I think.

:nanana:

This poll represents such a small minority, how could you think this represents every X5 sold??? Seriously do you really believe 66% of the X5 sold have problems? give me a break.

What???
 

81K for an E70 3.0si????

As far as the "made in the USA" comments, I recommend you go down to the factory in Spartansburg. They've got quite a few awards for build quality. Sorry you don't think much of American workers. After 26 years in the U.S. military, using American built systems, I think quite highly of them!
:thumbup:

I have had the same build issues with the 4.8i and have now talked with several others that are having transmission and I-drive issues. I think many are getting frustrated with the initial build quality issues and cannot disagree with your conclusions. Good luck. Mine is going back for the fourth time on Monday for basically the same issues. We will see what happens.

It must be a very difficult decision to make, particularly since the financial hit is likely going to be pretty bad. But principled decisions are the best decisions one can make.

I do think that there is a bit too much of a focus on nationalism in this thread. The history of U.S. manufactured vehicles is spotty, though it has improved. I remember reading, somewhere, that both Toyota and Honda have stated that the quality of vehicles made in the U.S. is not as high as what they see in Japan. I cannot remember the source, however. The emphasis, however, was that they were newer plants, and therefore had some growing pains. It was not a reflection on the U.S. workforce.

I think there is merit to say that a new plant is going to bring some glitches that may not be present in older plants. (New workforce, new machinery, new processes, new suppliers, etc.)

Joel

:goodluck: with the 335i! That thing is beast!

BMW really needs to work on quality. I've heard of poor paint quality and not-well-fitted interior pieces on almost every new BMW recently. I've read plenty from magazines and independent reviewers that say the paint quality on the X5 needs improvement........it's a bit rough so they say.

We tried an Audi today (YES that's right. Matt brought his parents into the Audi dealership intentionally. Not mistaken for the BMW dealership next door :nanana:) and it was faily impressive. I say its about 85% of a BMW performance for about 85% of the price. The interior's a lot better too, albeit a bit dated. The A3 we tried as better than expected. I knew the 2.0 engine and DSG would be good, but not this good.

I didnt have a bad hit as I sold it privately and made only a $3k loss!!

I didnt have a "lemon" per se...the car was fine...but little quality issues , rattling, gaps at door panles...as I said and a few others had made me make this decision.....when you spend that kind of money AND on a BMW you dont expect these...

European and Japanese manufacturers have always been unhappy with the quality of their vehicles built in the USA....I also remember reading this report somewhere.....that doesnt take away from the USA, just the lack of discipline and standards that European/Japanese set for their employees in those respective countries.....if they DEMANDED the same tolerance levels from the NA cars compared to Europe I think we would all be happy.

I think South Africa ( Rosslyn ) at present is most well respected BMW factory...
Bottom Line IMHO : A LUXURY EUROPEAN CAR WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER QUALITY.

Im happy to move on and at least have the ability to say I once had an E70 !

I had NO quality problems with my e53 -- which, by the way -- was also built in the US. As someone already mentioned, the Accord is built in America (Ohio). The Camry is built in Tennessee. The Tundra is built in Texas.

BMW MAY indeed be having quality problems; do not blame those problems on the American workers, though.

Good luck,

Juan

please read my reply carefully...I do not accuse US employees of the issues...I blame their SUPERIORS.....companies need to demand the SAME level of quality as they do in Europe and elsewhere.

I don't think location has too much as an affect on quality. The Ford Fusion is made in Mexico, and has gotten praises for it's build quality, meanwhile, the US built Camry has some trim alignment issues (experienced first hand).
But I will see how the European-built (I think Austrian) X3 sizes up to the X5 quality wise. I'm hoping for no problems.
:thumbup:
Anyways, best of luck to you, 330i2x5.

So... the superiors are not "American workers"? You're making an incredibly incongruent argument. You specifically blamed your quality problems on the car being built in America, when many of the top-quality, best-selling cars in the world are indeed built in America.

Let's face it, most new BMWs built here or anywhere else, have problems. The e53 was riddled with them, but they (BMW) eventually fixed them. By the way, VW has a buy-back program for the Touareg; MB seems to have FINALLY corrected ITS quality control issues after struggling with quality for the past 5 or 6 years... and none of that is related to American workers.

All I'm saying is, making a blanket statement that your problems can be traced back to "American workers" is unfair.

Good luck with the 335i... oh yeah, be on the lookout for transmission over-heating problems that have plagued that car... built in Germany, I believe? :rolleyes:

Juan

:iagree::iagree:

Kaefer/Juan or whatever your name is....you can have the last word....whatever makes you happy.

Ahhhh... I love it when a plan comes together. :D

Relax, man... this is not about having the last word. You have your opinion; I have mine. It's OK to disagree.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems. This is an issue that I have thought about over my years driving BMW's. This car company is known to push new models out the door and in many cases complete R&D while the vehicles are in the owners hands. I had a 1985 325e (eta engine) that wouldn't idle smoothly no matter what the dealer tried. The tach would rhythmically jump to 1,800rpm and back to 700 rpm at idle with no fix in sight. My 1987 325is was a great car (too bad about the accident and resultant frame damage). My 1989 535iA went through 3 camshafts, upper ball joints, control arms, seat material coming apart, etc. It also had problems idling smoothly. After this car, I took a break from BMW for a few years. My next BMW was a 1999 540iA, the best BMW I owned. It had very few problems and was a stellar performer.

In almost every case, buying a car a few years into the production cycle yielded a more problem free car. I'm not sure the issue has alot to do with where the vehicles are built though. My personal opinion is that the design is what drives the quality and fault rate. It is easy to trace faults to poor assembly. If door panels rattle, is it because an American worker assembled it poorly or was the panel designed with inadequate tolerances and a materal that is too thin to have the ridgidity necessary to avoid rattles?

On the other hand, looking at the Japanese cars, the Japanese seem in general to be obsessed with quality where the American car manufacturers seem to be happy with "it's good enough - no one is complaining". Now, with sales dropping due to poor quality product and undesireable models, the American manufacturers are in serious trouble. Another issue I see has to do with the culture of "entitlement" prevalent in the unions of American car manufacturers (Canadian workers included).

My personal opinion is that if the Unions continue on their present course, they'll take the car companies down with them and we'll all be buying foreign cars. I agree with other posts that assembly quality in North America seems to be poorer than with imports manufactured abroad.

To the issue at hand; I mystified as to why you would feel the way you do about BMW, yet give them more of your money!! Based on my experience, you're just as likely to have problems with a German built car (especially if it is an early production model). The I-drive problems on your German built 3 series are likely to be he same as with your E70.

Perhaps the best plan for us is to pay our money, but not expect perfection. I'm prepared to live with a few problems. I lease my cars and turn them in after 3 years. I like to get a new car every few years and don't look forward to repairing the problems these complex cars are bound to encounter during warranty and beyond. Knowing that I only have to put up with these problems over the short term, I don't get too involved with making the dealer do it over and over again until they get it right. I drive it and dump the problem in the dealer's lap when I turn the car in. I enjoy the drive when I have it though! :)

yeah a faulty sensor is turning off 335's all across the country. But problems are always found on 1st year models.

+1:iagree:

Even if his opinion blows :rofl:

I have had an issue or two with every BMW I have had. For instance my E46 M3 (where is that built again, oh Germany...and by who is it designed..yeah the M division) in the first 2,000 miles the weatherstripping fell off the car. A very common plague with E46's. Had those damn Germans just had better glue standards it would have all been fine :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The BMW manufacturing plant at Rosslyn in South Africa has an horrendous record for poor quality standards in the UK BMW dealer network. Here in the UK the Rosslyn plant complements the 3 series production in Germany by manufacturing the "Bread and Butter" variants namely the 316, 318 and 320 Petrol. BMW will not risk the QA standards of the South Africans building the higher end variants, i.e. 325, 330, 335, etc, etc, incl -; saloon, touring, coupe and convertible

Sorry got to disagree as far as UK luxury car manufacturing is concerned! I was actively employed at Land Rover for 17 years and witnessed some very poor QA standards and vehicles. Just go and look at any Land Rover Websites to clarify my point. I will say the best years at Land Rover were the days when BMW held the reins. Since Ford took over quality and employee morale is rock bottom.

B4M

I think the issue is really 1st year production issues rather than where the vehicle is built. Most manufacturers seem to have problems with that, although the Japanese seem to have a better handle on it than most.

My buddy had a 1st year E36 that he had to lemon-law. He seriously had a 2" thick stack of repair paperwork to give to BMW's rep when they gave him static about a swap. My 3rd year E36, built in Germany, had several problems from the get-go. One entire headlight assembly kept popping out. It's no fun to get out of your brand-new BMW and have your date ask you why the headlights are hanging loose by the wires! The tranny shift lever also had a sheared-off bolt that kept it from going into park occasionally. Another fun issue on dates until service finally figured out what the problem was.

My E46, built in Germany, had 4 window regulators fail. Driving with a window all the way down when it's 115F outside really isn't fun. And the sunroof died the 2nd time I used it, and there were all sorts of odd clunking and thumping sounds that took years to iron out.

Anyway, my point is that anybody that buys the 1st year of any model, especially a German car, should expect more than their fair share of problems no matter where it's built. Oh, the 335i also had issues with overheating. Apparently BMW decided that non-SP models didn't need an oil cooler and so left it off if you didn't order the sport pack. Those wacky Germans!

earlier you said:
"I have had rattles everywhere, gaps between door panels have been horribly off ( despite there being so called Quality Assurance after production ) and electronics which have a mind of their own...I refer to IDRIVE of course...e.g Nav freezes and whole system restarts itself on the move, backup camera works intermittently."

sorry, but this is not normal...sounds like you have a lemon to me. I feel sorry for the person you sold this too.
My E70 has zero rattles, and the electronics work as advertised. Have never had a freeze or restart since I bought it 4 months ago. And my backup camera works every time (just looks like crap, but that another issue).

I am not here to bash the E70 per se, but relate a story and what my experience is in relation to this topic. I have a friend that works for a BMW dealer, and recently he had a conversation with the visiting BMW rep for the area. The rep mentioned visiting dealers in his area and finding E70's that just arrived at the dealerships with poor quality control-from small things such as incorrect badges installed to a couple that have arrived with running boards on one side and none on the other. He said the recent assembly line changes at the Spartanburg plant have caused some problems and it is showing.

Since I have a dealer's license, I routinely check out the Manheim auctions for prospective buys. At a recent Manheim auction up north, there were three E70's, all with under 3k miles, that were being sold. Each of them were yellow light, meaning there was a disclosure. And each one were manufacturer buybacks, or 'lemon law' vehicles. I did some checking and found a few more like this at other Manheim locations.

I am glad some people aren't having any issues with their E70's, but personally if I was in the market for one I would wait for an '08 or '09 so that most of the bugs are worked out.

Sorry to hear of your problems with your E70. My E53 lease is up in two months, and I've agonized about what to replace it with. I like the E70, although I don't need the increased cargo space, or third row seats. I could also do without I-Drive.

When I priced an E70 replacement, msrp was north of $75k. Since I never carry any passengers, I also began to question my need for another SAV. While I was at my local BMW dealer, I walked over to the Mini showroom. Just for the hell of it, I test drove an '07 Cooper S. I was instantly hooked...reminded me of my 1974 2002tii. After the test drive, I ordered one.

Talk about apples & oranges...my wife thinks I've lost my mind, and time will tell if I have... but at half the price, and with a pretty big fun factor, it should be interesting.

Sorry to hear about your E70 issues but congrats on the new ride.

Initial model year issues seem to plague each car company. Early on when the E70 was being discussed I said I would avoid it til at least year 3 because of issues like you mentioned as well as two friends and a neighbor who all are experiencing similar problems.

The bad thing is if you want a good quality car, BMW is NOT the way to go, but if you want a fun car, then BMW all the way. Toyota, Honda etc are much better cars and cost a lot less, but you give up some of the fun factor.

I'm not sure if American built cars are better or worse than others in general, but I do know that Toyota quality has diminished (but still much better than BMW) as they have expanded manufacturing in the U.S. Japan built cars have less issues than U.S. built (same models). Someone told me that GM cars built in China have better quality than the US built ones. Now, this could be due to new facilities in China or to the workers themselves. But IF it is true that China built cars are better quality with the new factories, then the argument that the US built Toyota's are experiencing more problems due to new factories would not make since.

In any event, congrats on the new ride and I hope it goes better for you than the E70 did. For all the folks with the E70 and no problems, I hope you continue to have problem free driving.

I haven't done the test drive yet but i'm not surprised about your decision. What did it for you?

Apparently there are a lot of folks out there who have lost it so you're gonna be in good company. :thumbup:

It started two weeks ago, when I drove my brother's 760i back from Williamsburg, Va. It drove well, but was way too big, and way too wide. Steering was lethargic and I felt like I was driving a land yacht. When I looked at the E70, I was disappointed that it had grown bigger than the E53. It reminded me a lot of the 760i. I really wanted to love the E70, but as hard as I tried, I could not warm up to it.

I've driven BMW's for 35 years, my first was a 1970 2002, my favorite was my 1974 2002tii. Through the years, BMW's have gotten bigger, and more luxurious. (and a lot more expensive).

The Mini reminds me of my early BMW's...quick, small, precise, and most importantly, fun. It's also nice that it's made by BMW, so much of what I love about BMW's comes through in the Mini. When I took a test drive in the Cooper S, it was light a light bulb going off in my head..."This is how I remember driving used to be". I felt a connection with the car that I have not felt in any of my recent BMW's...Time will tell if I really love it, but I figured that it's worth a try.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I was just about to post similar comment! hahah

Hey don't feel bad i just picked up an 06 R53 MCS (Cooper S) demo with 4300 miles. I test drove the 07 R56 MCS, but I personally prefer the last gen models to the revised 07 cars.

Ironically enough I feel the same way about the E70. After dusting off (and I mean thoroughly) a Cayenne S last weekend on the turnpike, and no real problems (TSB for the telematics unit) for bluetooth pairing issues, I am satisfied as ever.

That being said I will proudly stick with my E53 for now.:thumbup:

BMW's gone soft on their latest models. This seems to have spread to the Mini as well :thumbdown .

mate, there is no way in hell you could dust off a cayenne s in a x5 4.s. IMPOSSIBLE! what do u guys think??

Cayenne S: 385 hp / 0-60mph 5.4 sec.

You can think/believe what you want. My wife was in the car also - it was not once but several times. I even gave him a chance. He tried to pull off but I still walked him by a couple of cars.


Don't get it twisted 4.4's are no joke on the top end:thumbup:

Sorry mate no cigar to the Cayenne "S" driver on this occaision.

You are speaking of the recently revised model - previous version is rated at 340hp.

Production: 2003-Present
Engine Type: Water Cooled Naturally Aspirated V8
Displacement: n/a
Power: 340 hp
254 kW
Torque: 310 lb. ft.
421 Nm

I have driven both, the cayenne maybe a little quicker in straight line, but that is far as it goes, the cayenne does not corner as well as a X5 Sports and you can put larger tyres on a X5, also the X5 out sells the cayenne.

All roads are not straight, they do have corners.

I really don't like the Cayenne. I'm a Porsche sports car owner, longtime PCA driving instructor and somewhat of a "purist" when it comes to what I think Porsche should build. IMO the Cayenne is an ugly, overpriced, problem plagued VW that is more of a failure than the company will ever admit. I own an X5 e53 (4.4 with sport) and think it provides far better value the Cayenne. And I will no doubt buy an e70 when the time is right.

But... having driven both the new and older versions of Cayenne and X (the latter back to back on our local track- Summit Point- and extensively on a skidpad), I find it impossible to believe that any x5 (save a 4.6 or 4.8) would "dust" a Cayenne S. IMO the Cayenne is decidedly quicker- both in corners and on a straight line. I suspect that back to back the new Cayenne is that much quicker still (hey they had to do something to move the things).

Therefore I have to question the veracity and maturity level of anyone who says they "dusted" a Cayenne by doing what is essentially racing on a public road.

How do you know the other driver just didn't exercise a bit of common sense and back off? And WTF are you doing trying to "dust" anyone a public road anyway? In a freaking SUV for crying out loud?

I don't like hearing crap like this. If you want to race get a sports car and learn how to drive it on a race track.

US quality? I dunno. My 2003 M5 (German made) is in the shop so often that the mechanic and I have become good friends. The NAV has been replaced 4 times now. You do not buy a BWM for reliability, because it sucks for most part. My m5 is my fun driver (along side my new C6 Vette). My daily driver is a Toyota (Japanese made 4runner).

You are entitled to 'whatever" you wish to beleive - the Cayenne lost. The whole thing started because of his arrogance and deciding to throw trash out of his vehicle with me directly behind him. The road was clear basically the two of us. I gave him a couple of chances. My X5 is also unlimited so - SUV or not - if my equipment is order (tires, brakes, tuned) if I am given a clear opportunity to open her up on occaision I will do so.

I do know how to drive on a track and have had the opportunity to drive Porsche's you yourself have probably not had a chance to drive i.e. 959, Kremer, Ruf, Andial and various other's due to having a relationship with the dealership - that does the highest volume of Porsches sales in the "World'.

So save the soapbox routine, and stay in the right lane at 53.5 mph.:popcorn:

Well you certainly proved your maturity level, didn't you? The Cayenne Driver threw trash and you "won".

The you cite a bunch of tuners and cars (only some of whom are only peripherally associated with Champion- the dealership with whom you claim to be related) rather than actually cite driving experience (NASA, SCCA, BMW or Porsche Club racing perhaps?), schools attended (Panoz, PDE, Barber?) or licenses earned (SCCA, Porsche/Audi/ BMW NDI?).

Thanks for proving me right.

Quite the contrary, I haven't proven anything for you.

Have you driven any of vehicles I listed, on a track or otherwise?

I could, but there is no need for me to go into my driving experience - tracks, club affiliations, etc. I have stated enough. When you step down off the soap box - pick up a late model Cayenne S (pre-08 model) come on down to SoFla. and we can have a friendly run at Sebring or wherever - that would be the real proof.

Cheers

you guys race SUVs? You serious? This is too funny!
Whats next? Racing minivans to soccer practice?

Obviously you dont drive car pool :)

Actually I don't race anything. I may (and want) to do PCA club racing but don't currently have the budget or time. My track car is a 96 933 (not street legal). I've been doing PCA DEs for a little over ten years and am a nationally certified instructor. The most "exotic" car I've ever driven on a race track is a real 1973 Carrera RS (in March of this year). Not fast at all by current standards but wonderfully communicative and a joy to drive. I felt incredibly privileged to drive it- and actually pushed it pretty hard though I didn't intend to. The fastest car I've ever ridden in (not drive) was someone's 964 super tweaked cup car. At VIR. Sickeningly powerful- literally. I suspect it made about 700 bhp at the wheels and weighed about 2300. The fastest car I've probably ever driven is a 996 Supercup- but I didn't push it.

I sure as sh*t don't race SUVs- they're not allowed on track by PCA (or any organization I know of) due to the weight/mass difference (think what they'd do to a 914) but I have driven them at speed on the track with friends who own Cayennes and Toureags.

I deplore racing on public roads and volunteer outside PCA to help teenagers learn to drive with their mind rather than their d*cks. That said I do drive fairly fast on public roads- but no so fast as to endanger the vast majority who can't drive- or who think they can and pretend to "dust" those who piss them off. I haven't "raced" anyone on public roads since my early twenties- and never would again.

Rather than a friendly run at Sebring- come on up to Summit Point for a FATT day. Or a Zone 2 event at VIR. Neither are limited to Porsches- you can bring anything you want (but not an SUV)- and depending on your run group and how you do- we'll trade back to back to back and you can drive my car or I'd be happy to volunteer as your instructor. If you're serious I'll be at VIR in September or can meet you at Summit on any scheduled FATT day.

I would urge you- with all due respect- to drive with your mind rather than your emotions- especially in public. You didn't "win" anything- and I've never seen anyone drive faster when they're emotionally upset. Think about it.