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-   -   Trailer brakes/towing questions (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e70-forum/83422-trailer-brakes-towing-questions.html)

4MoJoe 09-13-2011 12:20 PM

With surge brakes you have no braking when backing down a ramp. You lose ability to control them from your car too as mentioned.

My preference was to retrofit my Four Winns 2 wheel trailer with electric and I've had them on for 8 years now and easy to maintain and I think better overall control.

ard 09-13-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlyS4 (Post 843171)
Hmmmm, after reading all your posts I am honestly thinking that surge brakes may be the way to go for my application. I am only going to be towing an 18ft Sea Ray, around 3000lbs loaded with the trailer, the reviews I've read on surge brakes seem to be really favorable overall. Do surge brakes have any glaring limitations compared to electronic trailer brakes that I've missed? Are they less reliable under sustained braking conditions like coming down a mountain pass or an extended decent? I am a gadget guy and an electronics buff, but it seems like a BMW hitch with surge brakes on the trailer would be a simple, and most importantly to me, safe set up for my situation. Thoughts?

As a rule (and I suggest you back this up with 30 minutes reading the results of a google search) Surge brakes will not give you the same level of control and fine tuning as a Proportional Electronic brake controller.

The new tekonshas have a built in accelerometer that allows you to adjust how much brake to apply in relation to the trailer load. How much to apply initially, in response to just touching the pedal- and how much to add in response to the deceleration of the tow vehicle. This adds up to a smoother ride and less stress on the tow vehicle and tow hitch. And better stability.

Are surge brakes "Okay"? Will they "work"?? Of course, millions tow with them. However for the $200-300 it costs to toss on an EBC, I don't know why one would not....

OlyS4 09-13-2011 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 843200)
As a rule (and I suggest you back this up with 30 minutes reading the results of a google search) Surge brakes will not give you the same level of control and fine tuning as a Proportional Electronic brake controller.

The new tekonshas have a built in accelerometer that allows you to adjust how much brake to apply in relation to the trailer load. How much to apply initially, in response to just touching the pedal- and how much to add in response to the deceleration of the tow vehicle. This adds up to a smoother ride and less stress on the tow vehicle and tow hitch. And better stability.

Are surge brakes "Okay"? Will they "work"?? Of course, millions tow with them. However for the $200-300 it costs to toss on an EBC, I don't know why one would not....

Good info guys, thank you. The lack of braking when backing down the ramp, as well as the ability to fine tune the level of braking are things I hadn't considered. I like the idea of the wireless EBC, I'm just trying to figure out the logistics of wiring and mounting. I agree that the additional cost is not much for the higher level of safety and stablity the EBC provides. It's just a bummer that BMW doesn't offer much support for those of us that want to tow. Seems like it could be a lot easier to add the hitch and EBC from the factory.

JCL 09-13-2011 06:02 PM

I agree with bluedragon (I never had sway issues as long as I had the proper trailer tongue load), 4MoJoe (no trailer brakes when backing down a ramp can be an issue at low tide), and ard (electronic brakes are more sophisticated).

My towing has ranged from no brakes (including my own vehicles and driving a tow truck), to surge brakes, to electric brakes, to air brake equipped vehicles (class 8 trucks).

Two points:

1) All that control presumes that the operator knows how to use it to full advantage. Applying too much or too little trailer braking removes all the advantages of an electric brake controller. Surge brakes win for simplicity. They are automatically proportional, the harder you brake the harder they are applied on the trailer.

2) It is more important IMO to maintain your braking system that it is to pick one over the other. Many trailer brakes don't work due to corrosion and lack of maintenance.

Personally, by the time I got to 5000 or 6000 lbs, I would choose electric trailer brakes. At 3000 lbs I would choose surge brakes, unless I suspected that as a boater I was subject to two-foot-itis, implying that the next boat would come in above 3000 lbs.

BMW's lack of support for towing isn't surprising. It is the same for all auto manufacturers. When you get to heavy duty pickups, you can get built-in brake controllers. But not on cars. It is actually quite a bit better than it used to be with the X5, as there was no BMW brake controller option and no prewiring for the brake controller until the last two years.

kakalika 09-13-2011 09:41 PM

I tow a 21 foot Chris Craft. Weighs in at about 3800 pounds including trailer. Trailer has surge brakes. I have had no problems with them at all






http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5360/img1510qr.jpg

OlyS4 09-14-2011 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakalika (Post 843303)
I tow a 21 foot Chris Craft. Weighs in at about 3800 pounds including trailer. Trailer has surge brakes. I have had no problems with them at all

What year/engine do you have? Ever find the surge brakes insufficient on steep boat ramps?

OlyS4 09-14-2011 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL (Post 843265)
1) All that control presumes that the operator knows how to use it to full advantage. Applying too much or too little trailer braking removes all the advantages of an electric brake controller. Surge brakes win for simplicity. They are automatically proportional, the harder you brake the harder they are applied on the trailer.

Personally, by the time I got to 5000 or 6000 lbs, I would choose electric trailer brakes. At 3000 lbs I would choose surge brakes, unless I suspected that as a boater I was subject to two-foot-itis, implying that the next boat would come in above 3000 lbs.

I see your point about the user controlling electronic trailer brakes and the issues that this could cause with inexperience.

The weight I'll be towing seems to be on the low end from what others are saying, and it seems like surge brakes would suffice.

kakalika 09-14-2011 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlyS4 (Post 843323)
What year/engine do you have? Ever find the surge brakes insufficient on steep boat ramps?

2011 35 Diesel. The surge brakes do not work when you reverse.

admranger 09-28-2011 12:41 AM

The energy required to stop your X5 + 3k lbs boat slowly backing down a boat ramp is considerably less than stopping your X5 from 60 - 0 (kph or mph). It's minuscule if one believes that kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass of the vehicle * velocity * velocity. I'll leave the actual math to JCL! :D

Yeah, a slippery boat ramp is a challenge, but I'm gonna bet that the two little, rock hard 215/75/15 trailer tires won't have that great of an effect anyway vs. your 4 monster sticky tires on the X5. YMMV.

If you don't want to comply with the laws of physics, then nevermind... :thumbup:

JCL 09-28-2011 01:09 AM

Well, if you need trailer brakes to stop when reversing down a boat launch ramp, because your vehicle wheels have insufficient traction, then consider what happens after you stop. You try to drive back up the ramp. And since you have no traction on your vehicle wheels, you need a front-mounted winch with a snatch block and a convenient anchor point just to get back to solid ground. At least that is how we did it back in the F-350 days.

No math required :D


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