The other thing I would like to point out is that this forum ( and many others) didnt get started because people shied away from these vehicles. For whatever reason we bought, we were given or in my case are interested in and the bmw x5. That's not to say your advised is bad, heck I argue with myself all the time about which boondoggle I will settle on. 2 minutes online and everyone in the world will advise against ever owning a land rover even with a full warranty, yet I would consider it. some of these vehicels were sold for almost 100k 10-12 years ago and I can find them for $4000. That tells most smart people all they need to know. I am just not that smart.