Way before I thought about the plugs too but they all look fine. They are the original oridiums that came with the car. I only have 51k and im sure they've never been replaced before. Hm.. Maybe I'll look into replacing them too just for peace of mind. But how would plugs explain the CAN faults I'm getting off Carly. I would think it's a short due to a bad sensor. But anyway thanks for the advice as I'll look into it again, but sure hope Marky would tell us his verdict.