Thank you crystalworks, as ard mentioned and from my own research there are owner who were out of warranty and bmw good willed the repair , and as this is my 3 Rd x5 I feel that BMW should at least show me some good will because of ownership loyalty ,and not push it of on us that we are doing something wrong ,and that in turn is causing the problem , this issue is well documented on other forums ,and other owners have had to fight to get a positive outcome ,that's what I feel I must do at this point, we all love our vehicles and spend countless hours on them , and we pay a premium for them ,so we should expect quality products