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Originally Posted by bcredliner
While the approval of the vaccine was expedited there was no compromise in the SOP to reach approval. The extent of immunity of those that have had COVID varies and declines over time. That is the reason the CDC recommends still getting vaccinated. Approval of medications are not and have not been a decades process. It is safer to be vaccinated than risking the documented long-term effects that can come from having COVID. There will never be an absolute certainty.
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The same medications that don't have decades long approvals are the ones involved in massive lawsuits. Sure its a small portion but in general the way that the FDA and Big Pharma have shown in the past and in the case of Pfizer now that profits trump all else including the health and well being of the consumer. I am not skeptical of the scientists in the labs working on this stuff, I'm skeptical of the accountants and upper management pushing these things out the door while ignoring those same super smart scientists who are in the background saying "We don't know how safe it is yet". This is obviously an overgeneralization but its to get my viewpoint across.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner
The percentage of deaths from breakthrough cases is extremely small. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-vaccines.html The number of breakthrough cases should not be used as a reason to not get vaccinated. Even if the percentage was ten times higher the risk of hospitalization, ICU stay or death is mountains higher for those unvaccinated. |
Again, my biggest issue with the mandate is that one person's vaccination does not have a profound affect on those in direct contact with that person so why the mandate? Me being vaccinated does not stop you from getting the virus in most cases. Social responsibility coupled with proper PTO/Sick time structure would help more by allowing sick people to stay home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner
No restrictions or mandates would be considered if the unvaccinated were not the primary cause the virus continues to impact so many lives. I am free to drive whatever speed I want. OOPS I was going 90 when I rear ended your X5. What's the problem? You are free to stay off the roads. Would you like some 'mandates'd to see that I am less tempted to speed or be taken off the road?
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I agree with the speeding scenario 100% it's why we have speed limits and why I take my speeding tickets without a shred of negativity toward the officer enforcing the traffic laws. However the situation with the vaccine is not exactly like you describe because regardless of the mandate (traffic laws) and adherence thereto (driving the speed limit) the same number of traffic incidents (transmission cases) WILL happen, and you will be driving the same vehicle, the only thing that will change is how protected I am. So OOPS you rear-ended my X5 in your X5 or OOPs you rear-ended my HUMVEE in your X5. All other factors stay the same. As for me rear-ending someone or not (being vaccinated), well that's me taking responsibility, this is what CW is talking about. Ultimately those of us that are NOT against the vaccine but ARE against the mandates want everyone to be more socially responsible which includes changing how society approaches things like sick time and child care and so many other things that make it impossible for a single mother to stay home with her sick kid because she just cant afford it. The system is broken, and vaccine mandates are a band-aid to a gun wound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner
I think the number of vaccinated people that are scared is extremely small. I would say they are well informed and justifiably, reasonably cautious. If God is brought into this what about do onto others as you would have them do unto you.
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I guess you misunderstood me on this. If you are afraid of the infection having extreme effects then go get vaccinated, I fully support all those who are vaccinated because they are taking the steps they feel are necessary to protect themselves. But don't force me to sit in a pew and listen to scripture.
Definitely keeping faith out of this discussion (I guess you're not familiar with the musical stylings of Ice Cube).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard
Wait. This is a ‘stupid or evil’ situation.
All vaccines have failure rates. Only the anti-Vaxxers seem to have decided that ‘real vaccines’ are “100%”…so this COVID thing must not be a real vaccine.
Also, the rates at which people will GET COVID and TRANSMIT COVID are far different if you are vaccinated. So not sure why you reduce this to a binary? Just too much for you to comprehend, or something else?
So this retarded absolutism, almost always the hallmark of uncritical thinking, is just a game the antivaxers play.
If you dont want the risk of being vaccinated, then YOU can stay home. Or not fly, not work, not shop, not eat out, not go to school.
We wont miss you.
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1. Personal attacks really help drive the point home in a discussion, really proves the breadth of one's ability to get his/her point across in a civilized manner, I bet you're just as bold in person.
2. I never mentioned failure rates. I stated that the vaccine does not affect transmission rates, guess I should've specified further. The CDC along with their counterparts from around the world have all stated that the current vaccines have a profound affect on the
alpha variant while the transmission of all other variants is not greatly affected.
3. When I had the infection (in April of 2020) I stayed home, didn't fly, didn't eat out, didn't go to school, etc. Not because I had to be told so but because I take responsibility for my affect on the wellbeing of the people around me.
4. This is the farthest thing from abolitionism, it is in fact the measured positive effect vs the potential negative. Now on the off chance in 20 years my liver starts to malfunction as a direct result of the vaccination that I was basically forced to get because my freedoms to do basically anything were being forcibly removed even though I already had the natural immunity that comes with beating a viral infection, even though the effects of the virus on my entire family were minimal, even though I am responsible enough to know when to stay my sick #$% home. Do I come harvest your organs because you're in the camp that forced me to get an immunization that ultimately led to a much MORE severe health implication for me or do I go after your kids organs since yours will probably be in just as bad of shape as mine?
I really don't have a problem with mass vaccination, my problem is with how it is being rolled out and as I think most of us agree with how this whole situation is being used as political tool for the people (politicians) we would all like to see removed from existence (not killed, just maybe sent to a different dimension or something)