[QUOTE=Nolimite39;1212962]The same medications that don't have decades long approvals are the ones involved in massive lawsuits. Sure its a small portion but in general the way that the FDA and Big Pharma have shown in the past and in the case of Pfizer now that profits trump all else including the health and well being of the consumer. I am not skeptical of the scientists in the labs working on this stuff, I'm skeptical of the accountants and upper management pushing these things out the door while ignoring those same super smart scientists who are in the background saying "We don't know how safe it is yet". This is obviously an overgeneralization but its to get my viewpoint across.
What vaccines are facing massive lawsuits?
What scientists are saying the vaccine is not safe yet?
Again, my biggest issue with the mandate is that one person's vaccination does not have a profound affect on those in direct contact with that person so why the mandate? Me being vaccinated does not stop you from getting the virus in most cases. Social responsibility coupled with proper PTO/Sick time structure would help more by allowing sick people to stay home.
The problem is not one person. If there was only one unvaccinated person there would not be a problem. Each unvaccinated individual is part of huge number that are the problem. The problem is that 1+1+1+1+1 and millions more are unvaccinated. The result is that COVID continues to be a national health crisis.
I agree with the speeding scenario 100% it's why we have speed limits and why I take my speeding tickets without a shred of negativity toward the officer enforcing the traffic laws. However the situation with the vaccine is not exactly like you describe because regardless of the mandate (traffic laws) and adherence thereto (driving the speed limit) the same number of traffic incidents (transmission cases) WILL happen, and you will be driving the same vehicle, the only thing that will change is how protected I am. So OOPS you rear-ended my X5 in your X5 or OOPs you rear-ended my HUMVEE in your X5. All other factors stay the same. As for me rear-ending someone or not (being vaccinated), well that's me taking responsibility, this is what CW is talking about. Ultimately those of us that are NOT against the vaccine but ARE against the mandates want everyone to be more socially responsible which includes changing how society approaches things like sick time and child care and so many other things that make it impossible for a single mother to stay home with her sick kid because she just cant afford it. The system is broken, and vaccine mandates are a band-aid to a gun wound.
You actually believe if everyone drove the speed limit the number of accidents would not decrease? That says that speeding has not been the cause of any accidents. We know that completely defies decades of statistics and is not true of COVID transmission statistics either. You support mass vaccination but don't get vaccinated because fed mandates may be coming. When in fact the more and longer people refuse to be vaccinated the more likely there will be fed, state and local mandates. The unvaccinated can control whether there will be mandates and how restricting they could be. I would like to hear how you think COVID is going to get under control if not by vaccination. I think the unvaccinated are clearly not being socially responsible as their behavior is negatively effecting others. Socially responsible is getting vaccinated.
I guess you misunderstood me on this. If you are afraid of the infection having extreme effects then go get vaccinated, I fully support all those who are vaccinated because they are taking the steps they feel are necessary to protect themselves. But don't force me to sit in a pew and listen to scripture.
The vaccinated didn't do so out of fear. It was because they are protecting themselves, their family and the general public from a virus that can be deadly. And, because it is the right thing to do for all other citizens. Kinda like a patriotic duty.
Definitely keeping faith out of this discussion (I guess you're not familiar with the musical stylings of Ice Cube).
I avoid rap music as much as I can and don't have Ice Cube on my list as a learned source. To each their own.
1. Personal attacks really help drive the point home in a discussion, really proves the breadth of one's ability to get his/her point across in a civilized manner, I bet you're just as bold in person.
False. Personal attacks are more often than not an indication one doesn't have anything to respond with that is constructive or it has become clear that that person is wrong so they lash out. Personal attacks end the chance of learning or finding common ground. Discussions and debates are not personal. When personal attacks enter the equation it is then an argument and no progress is made.
2. I never mentioned failure rates. I stated that the vaccine does not affect transmission rates, guess I should've specified further. The CDC along with their counterparts from around the world have all stated that the current vaccines have a profound affect on the
alpha variant while the transmission of all other variants is not greatly affected.
Sorry if I misunderstood. The vaccine does reduce transmission rates. If one doesn't have COVID they can't infect others.
3. When I had the infection (in April of 2020) I stayed home, didn't fly, didn't eat out, didn't go to school, etc. Not because I had to be told so but because I take responsibility for my affect on the wellbeing of the people around me.
[COLOR="Blue"The CDC has stated the vaccine is safe. They also state you should get vaccinated even if you have had COVID. That would be for the wellbeing of others.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ctiveness.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-vaccines.html[/COLOR]
4. This is the farthest thing from abolitionism, it is in fact the measured positive effect vs the potential negative. Now on the off chance in 20 years my liver starts to malfunction as a direct result of the vaccination that I was basically forced to get because my freedoms to do basically anything were being forcibly removed even though I already had the natural immunity that comes with beating a viral infection, even though the effects of the virus on my entire family were minimal, even though I am responsible enough to know when to stay my sick #$% home. Do I come harvest your organs because you're in the camp that forced me to get an immunization that ultimately led to a much MORE severe health implication for me or do I go after your kids organs since yours will probably be in just as bad of shape as mine?
Natural immunity varies by individual and the severity of the infection. They are questions about how long any level of natural immunity lasts. The CDC recommends vaccination anyway. I have seen no expert input that the vaccine is not safe. That is intended to instill fear of the vaccine. It's just plain false. I view concern about 20 years from now as an unfounded excuse that can't be challenged because it will be years from now that we will know if there are longterm effects from the virus. The risk of X years from now is an unknown and pales in comparison to the risk of contracting COVID now.
I really don't have a problem with mass vaccination, my problem is with how it is being rolled out and as I think most of us agree with how this whole situation is being used as political tool for the people (politicians) we would all like to see removed from existence (not killed, just maybe sent to a different dimension or something)
This is, or a version of what many of the unvaccinated embrace--- While I don't have a problem with mass vaccination and I care about the wellbeing of others, I am not going to get vaccinated because I don't like the way it has been presented to me. The reality is no one is forcing the unvaccinated to be vaccinated. It has always been a recommendation and still is. It has also been that vaccination is the only way COVID will get under control. Everyone has had lots of time to get vaccinated and many haven't nor have they followed the guidelines. So what did they expect would happen?--- No big deal, do as you wish even though vaccination and mandates are the only proven broad based tools we currently have to curb COVID?