JCL,
Thanx for that info, it is most informative.
On your previous response to my comments about overdesigning fuel system components; I obviously did not express myself clearly enough since it appears that you took it personally.
I had NO intention of demeaning any Engineer or any engineer's design practices I was only trying, (obviously unsuccessfully), to point out that the fuel systems in our late model vehicles would, in all likely hood, withstand an 85% Ethanol blend with no problems.
AND, since you referred to me ". . .selling others on the idea by insisting that nothing will happen, contrary to the manufacturer's recommendations, . . ." I need to clear the air in that regard. I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING nor have I implied that I am !
I have no stake in either of the of the FFV conversion systems I'm using other than the $1,200.00 I've spent out of my own pocket to purchase the units online and pay for the Dyno runs and my mechanics labor to install them. I don't get a penny in compensation for what I've written I'm just very enthuisatic about the prospects for converting millions of older vehicles to enable them to burn something other than foreign oil.
I'm sorry you've taken my postings the wrong way. I though this was a forum for the presentation and discussion of ideas without letting personalities enter the discussion.
In any event, the following excerpts, from "The Auto Technicians Gasoline Quality Guide - changes in Gasoline III" [
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/pd...A/Gasoline.pdf ],
lend some credence to my argument about fuel sustem components. To wit:
Materials Compatibility: Auto manufacturers have, for many years,
used materials that are compatible with oxygenated fuels. However,
with the widespread use of oxygenated fuels and reformulated gasoline,
certain myths have resurfaced, so they warrant mention here.
In earlier versions of this manual this topic was covered in greater detail,
Including photographs from various tests and applicable service bulletins.
The information presented was segmented into two categories, metals and
elastomers.
Most metal components in automobile fuel systems will corrode or rust in
the presence of water, air or acidic compounds. The gasoline distribution
system usually contains water, and additional moisture may collect in the
automobile tank from condensation. Gasoline may also contain traces of
sulfur and organic acids. Gasoline has always been recognized as potentially corrosive. Pipelines which distribute gasoline routinely require that corrosion inhibitors be contained in gasoline to protect their plain steel pipe. Therefore, corrosion inhibitors have been routinely added to gasoline for many years.
MTBE is slightly soluble in water and could increase the water-holding
characteristics of gasoline by a very small amount. However, MTBE has
not been shown to increase the corrosion level of gasoline.
Alcohols are more soluble in water than MTBE. The addition of ethanol will
increase a gasoline’s ability to hold water. Therefore, an ethanol enhanced
gasoline may have a slightly higher moisture content than non-blended gasoline.
Several tests have been reported on ethanol enhanced gasolines. Vehicle
fuel tanks and fuel system components from autos operated for extended
periods on these blends were removed, cut open, and examined. These
tests have generally concluded that ethanol does not increase corrosion in
normal, everyday operation.
Auto manufacturers have indicated they do not have major concerns about
metal corrosion, provided that all fuels contain effective corrosion inhibitors
at the proper treatment levels. Responsible ethanol producers recognize that not all commercial gasolines are adequately treated for blending, and have, for some time, included a corrosion inhibitor in their ethanol. Additionally, there are ASTM specifications to ensure that fuel grade ethanol is suitable for addition to gasoline.
Many manufacturers utilize guidelines even more stringent than those
established by ASTM. Due to these controls and the addition of corrosion
inhibitors, you should not encounter ethanol-related corrosion problems.
Automobile and parts manufacturers have been responsive to the changes
occurring in today’s gasoline. Materials problems are less likely to occur with newer vehicles because of the upgrading of fuel system materials that has occurred since the introduction of higher aromatic unleaded gasolines and the addition of alcohols and ethers. All major automobile manufacturers have indicated that their late model vehicles are equipped with fuel system
components upgraded for use with these fuels.
While all auto manufacturers warrant the use of 10 percent ethanol blends and gasolines containing MTBE, their upgrading of fuel systems occurred at different times.
In general, 1980 and later model years should not experience problems with 10 percent ethanol blends or gasoline containing MTBE. Fuel systems in 1975 to 1980 model years were upgraded, but not to the same extent as later models. Pre-1975 models may have fuel system components that are sensitive to high aromatic gasolines, alcohols and ethers.
For more specific information on the various materials used in vehicle fuel systems, refer to Appendix A.
Other countries have been quick to identify fuel system materials which resist the changing composition of gasolines.
For several years the standard motor fuel in Brazil has been a blend of 22 volume percent ethanol in gasoline. Brazil also has over 5 million cars in operation on straight ethanol. Their ethanol program has been in operation for over ten years. The materials compatibility problems have been overcome. The benefits of their experience on a more severe application have assisted in identifying more suitable fuel system materials.
Numerous tests have indicated that materials compatibility on oxygenated fuels is no more of a concern than comparable hydrocarbon fuels and should not present any unique problems.
In the early 1980s, one area that presented problems in isolated cases was fuel filter plugging. Occasionally, in older model vehicles, deposits in fuel tanks and fuel lines were loosened by ethanol blends. When this occurs, the vehicle’s fuel filter may become plugged. This is easily remedied by a filter change. It is not likely that such problems will be experienced on late model vehicles.
Purolator Products addressed this issue several years ago with a 213 vehicle fleet test. This test program found no premature plugging and no failures related to gasoline-ethanol blends (see Figure 3-3 next page).
Figure 3-3 Excerpts from Purolator Products – Service Bulletin
Purolator Products has been actively engaged in laboratory and field test analysis to determine the effects of gasohol on gasoline filters and their related components. The satisfactory results generated by accelerated laboratory compatibility testing has been confirmed by extensive field testing. The results to date are very encouraging. No filter related failures have been observed.
The Auto Technician’s
Gasoline Quality Guide