ok here's where I am at currently. I think Brian is right the nav brain seems dead and for now the new amp works but it sounds like a home theater receiver set on 'arena'. This isn't bad when music is on just when talk radio or something is there. I have a trip coming up next week where we will be driving 8hrs each way in it so I don't want to try to code it to remove the echo because I'm affraid brian is right. What really upsets me is that the dealer claims to know nothing of the "shut down mode" and told me to replace the whole system.