P.S. - because I often get caught up in the BULL BREED argument, I saved this post from another website..

Here is my point, EVEN OTHER PIT BULL OWNERS DON'T AGREE WITH YOU:

here is a conversation I find quite interesting as it gives both sides of Pit Bull owners.. So if Pit Bull owners can't agree on the dogs behavior and breeding, why should you expect anyone else to agree with you:

I was informed of a Pit Bull forum that has some definitive problems.
I joined this forum to see for myself.
What I have found, in my opinion, is sickening.
Below I will list some of the comments that have been made to others on thread titled:
"Would you report illegal dogfighting?" - I think you should know that even though the poll says the results are "yes" the people who actually spoke their mind on the board, well most of them have said "no"

I'll keep the usernames anonymous for now.

Let the comments begin *Note none of the following comments were made towards me. My convo's don't come until the end*:

Anonymous 1: Have you read the history of the APBT? Matching is what made this breed what it is. You don't have to LIKE it, you if you don't ACCEPT it, maybe this isn't the right breed for you.
You should also try to learn the difference between fighting dogs and matching dogs. There is plenty of info on both if you're willing to take the time to learn.

Anonymous 2: What most fail to realize, in a proper and real "fight/match", there is no need to save the dog. The dog is happy, excited and loves what they are doing in the pit. The whole saving aspect comes from today's society and their need to humanize the situation and play hero.

Anonymous 3: I don't think game testing or matching a dog should be illegal anyways. For that matter I don't think most recreational drugs should be illegal either. I'm not a fan of helmets or seat belts. Gambling and prostitution should also be legalized. I think that all Americans who do not have a history of violence or mental illness should be able to walk around armed at all times to not only protect themselves from theft and harm, but to also protect the good Ole USA from threats both foreign and domestic. I think people should be the masters of their own destiny and other peoples morals should not be imposed.

Anonymous 4: If you take the dog aggression out of a pit bull, or attempt to anyway, you open it up to a slew of other issues including human aggression. I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep this breed true-to-standard and not screw it up. The hard work the forefathers of the breed took to make this breed as human-friendly and stable as they did. In all seriousness, folks. LEARN your dogs' roots. Learn your breed. This is not a breed for everyone and many people on here clearly didn't do their research and would prefer to have a Golden Retriever in a pit bull suit. I, on the other hand, would prefer a PIT bull.
This is in response to someone saying you can train the dog aggression out of a dog:
Oh, totally! Because it's ALL in how ya raise 'em.
*that was sarcastic if you didn't get that....*
And now back to another comment she made...
I'd like you to come to an ADBA show and tell someone with a very hot pit bull that they can work their dog using treats and "watch me" to get them to focus. They'd probably laugh. I'll be honest. I have a VERY hot pit bull. His name is Ryker. He hates many...many dogs. While food is an excellent motivator in low-stressor situations, the possibility of taking a chunk out of another dog is far more appealing.
This is in response to someone saying that thier Pit was 2 years old and hasn't shown any dog aggression...that maybe he will one day, but so far nothing and they'd like to keep it that way:
This comes from breed experience and breed knowledge and the reality of owning a breed that things Fido down the street would make a lovely snack. Your pit bull is a juvenile and hasn't reached full maturity.

Anonymous 5: Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane....(this was an opinion from another person on the thread)
This was his response: Well this is an opinion and not a fact. In your opinion it is cruel and inhumane... In my opinion it can be done in a way that makes it no different than humans engaging in a mixed martial art contest (UFC)...

Anonymous 6: this is in response to someone asking how everyone seems to just KNOW that a pit WANTS to fight - that it is in their genes to just want to fight:
Its in their genes. It makes them WANT to do it. Just like its in your genes to want to have sex. You WANT to do it.
Regardless you cant just train it out of them. They want to attack other dogs, they have a prey drive. Right? They are more than likely DA. Its something every APBT owner knows and understands.

Anonymous 7: Dogfighting is illegal for a couple of reasons.....
1. People whine too damned much and think of them as children
2. People do it for the WRONG reasons, the dogs are not treated and they are made to stick it out regardless....some people actually can make it inhumane, others know what they are doing.
If you want to argue the fact that there is no right way and it is ONLY WRONG, then you really need not own the breed, because after all, THIS IS what made them what they are today and if it does not continue "the right way" then the breed WILL CHANGE, how dramatically I have no idea, but it will change. Now, as far as people not wanting to fight their dogs, honey, most will not because they do not like it, the others will not because it is illegal, because others whined about it, and some people like me still would if it were legal....yes that is right.....If it were legal to fight THESE dogs, I sure as hell would....why? Because that my friend is what they were not only bred for, but it is what they love.

A little bit of convo:
ME: (in response to Anonymous 7's comments) - No, I disagree...the dog loves to please the owner..
The dog doesn't love to have it's face torn into...there is a difference.
Pits were originally bred to please their owners, to be loyal. If you have them in a pit and are cheering them on, of course they'll keep going. It isn't for the love of the blood - it's for the praise.
Anonymous 8: Lady, you dont know what your talking about. If you had any tangable experience with the gamedog you wouldn't be saying that! It's not my oppinion either it's fact! There are different versions, ppl perceptions of what the APBT should be. I have a hunch that say's you dont or have never owned a bona fide gamedog.
My response: Yes, actually I DO know what I am talking about.
But there is no way - not in THIS LIFETIME OF MINE - that I would ever need to have any experience with a gamedog.
Have you owned a "bona fide gamedog" - if so, what was the purpose of having it do what it did?

Me: (in response to Anonymous 5's comments)- All of this "lab in a pit suit" or "G.R. in a pit suit" is just absolutely stupid. Why would we WANT a dog to continue it's bad rep? To the people out there who are saying "if you want a sweet docile dog go get a lab not a pit" - what are you telling the rest of the public?? Pit's aren't all scary and tuff. Personally, I think the people saying this are the ones who shouldn't have the breed - you're doing nothing for it.
And to the people who are saying that GSD were not bred to be police dogs??? GSD's were developed in the 20th century for herding AND police/military work.
Here's a question to those of you who think that those of us who don't agree with dog fighting are just "whinny owners who think of our dogs are children" - What would be the purpose in legalizing dog fighting???
I can not BELIEVE that there are people on this forum who would fight their dogs if they could. How sick is that?
Anonymous 8: Dogfighting is a combative sport. Not all dogs are bred to be pets. The ppl that do breed to meet the standard of the breed, realy have no interest in your type of dog. It has no value or use other than it being a pet.
My response: And not all pits are bred to fight. That is wrong.
It's people like you that give the breed a bad name, saying that the only purpose for their existence is to be fought...
I know about it's historical purpose, and it wasn't initially to be fought. Maybe you are the one who should do some reading.

Anonymous 9: The bulldog was bred for other reasons (bullbaiting, farm work, guardian-type work). The terrier was bred for other reasons (ratting, vermin hunting/catching). The American Pit Bull Terrier was bred specifically to be the "perfect" pit dog....fighting dog. End of story. Everything in history, words and pictures both, explain it very simply and in detail.
The fact that you choose to ignore what is known and make up your own stories does worry me, especially if you are out trying to "educate" others on these dogs.
Though this pissed me off, I choose to just ignore that last sentence...and responded with: I've yet to see where it says that APBT were bred only for this purpose. In any breed profile I have read it has stated that in the 19th century the English crossed the bulldog with the terrier and then this dog was brought to the U.S. It was developed (I'll repeat myself as I have already said this in previous posts) as a guard dog, a cattle catcher, a livestock driver, and a COMPANION. Is is, however, most notorious for pit fighting. This breed was not first developed for this reason though.
*NOTE: Though it was later named for it*


So my point is REALCHEF,
Even people who own PitBulls, Bull Breeds, etc. don't agree with you.. Of course these are people who would like to see their dogs fight, but at least they have a realistic expectation of how to handle the breed. And if they own the dogs, breed the dogs, sell the dogs, don't for just a second you think, it would be a good idea to listen to what THEY have to say about the breed AND NATURE vs. NURTURE...

Again, from their lips, to your ears !

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss