Makes me mad...

[Markost12]

that my E70 4.8 is 40k USD more expensive than what Americans pay for the x5m!

[jigaro]

It's the axchange rate difference between dollar and an Euro.

Thats why i shipped mine from U.S.

If i had ordered mine from Europe with the same specs, i would have to pay 50 grand more.

I'am assuming your customs charge is skyhi, it will probably cost you money of another x5 yes?

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by Markost12

that my E70 4.8 is 40k USD more expensive than what Americans pay for the x5m!

BMW in Germany/Deutchland would be the people to query, probably something about economy of scale and exchange rates. Or perhaps it is just something else to blame/hate Americans for...

[jhu321]

the price is the same.. usually the manufacturers actually make MORE off an american sale than whereever you are because we believe we don' tax the crap out of the car. It has more to do with who pays for the taxes to run the government. Most places will tax the crap out of cars and fuel because thats seen as a luxury therefore if you can afford it, then you can pay more taxes to help run the government. Some places tax import cars because its a protectionist tax because they're trying to build their own local brand (malaysia, proton is the perfect example). But usually when your taxes on cars are high, something else is taxed lower corresponding to it all being worked out. For instance. my property tax is 11k a year, compared to malaysia's property tax of about 100 dollars a year for a similar value property.

when looking at this one aspect yes, it does look like its unfair that american get their cars so cheap; but when you look at it in total taxes paid usually its about equal... (yes we technically also enjoy the lowest net taxes as well, but thats not counting our share of the national debt, if you were to raise taxes to the point of paying back the national debt, we would be one of the highest taxed countries)

-john

[Markost12]

Originally Posted by jhu321

the price is the same.. usually the manufacturers actually make MORE off an american sale than whereever you are because we believe we don' tax the crap out of the car. It has more to do with who pays for the taxes to run the government. Most places will tax the crap out of cars and fuel because thats seen as a luxury therefore if you can afford it, then you can pay more taxes to help run the government. Some places tax import cars because its a protectionist tax because they're trying to build their own local brand (malaysia, proton is the perfect example). But usually when your taxes on cars are high, something else is taxed lower corresponding to it all being worked out. For instance. my property tax is 11k a year, compared to malaysia's property tax of about 100 dollars a year for a similar value property.

when looking at this one aspect yes, it does look like its unfair that american get their cars so cheap; but when you look at it in total taxes paid usually its about equal... (yes we technically also enjoy the lowest net taxes as well, but thats not counting our share of the national debt, if you were to raise taxes to the point of paying back the national debt, we would be one of the highest taxed countries)

-john

You are correct!

[Hans_ACS]

Originally Posted by jhu321

the price is the same.. usually the manufacturers actually make MORE off an american sale than whereever you are because we believe we don' tax the crap out of the car. It has more to do with who pays for the taxes to run the government. Most places will tax the crap out of cars and fuel because thats seen as a luxury therefore if you can afford it, then you can pay more taxes to help run the government. Some places tax import cars because its a protectionist tax because they're trying to build their own local brand (malaysia, proton is the perfect example). But usually when your taxes on cars are high, something else is taxed lower corresponding to it all being worked out. For instance. my property tax is 11k a year, compared to malaysia's property tax of about 100 dollars a year for a similar value property.

when looking at this one aspect yes, it does look like its unfair that american get their cars so cheap; but when you look at it in total taxes paid usually its about equal... (yes we technically also enjoy the lowest net taxes as well, but thats not counting our share of the national debt, if you were to raise taxes to the point of paying back the national debt, we would be one of the highest taxed countries)

-john

In belgium, we pay around 40% more for exaxt the same product (eg a M3 build in GERMANY, shipped to the USA and sold over there). In return we get the following from the government :
- higher taxes on gas
- extremelely high taxes on the use of the car
- bad roads
- cops flashing you every 5 miles
- CO2 tax
- the bigger the engine, the less you can deduct from your company's costing post

etc etc

In other words, being a car owner over here (especially an expensive one), is the ultimate cash-cow for the government.

I learned my lesson : I will not stay here for ever

[StanF18]

Originally Posted by Hans_ACS

In belgium, we pay around 40% more for exaxt the same product (eg a M3 build in GERMANY, shipped to the USA and sold over there). In return we get the following from the government :
- higher taxes on gas
- extremelely high taxes on the use of the car
- bad roads
- cops flashing you every 5 miles
- CO2 tax
- the bigger the engine, the less you can deduct from your company's costing post

etc etc

In other words, being a car owner over here (especially an expensive one), is the ultimate cash-cow for the government.

I learned my lesson : I will not stay here for ever

Here's something to make you and our Croatian buddy Markost12 feel much better: Ever hear the expression "The grass is always greener on the other side?"

John's post is spot on. Americans enjoy some of the lowest tax rates and cheapest M3s in the Western world. YES!

But there is never a free ride. Our health care costs are well-documented as the #1 cause of family bankruptcy in the USA. As long as we can stay relatively healthy we will enjoy our relatively "cheap" M3s and X5Ms. But when cancer and heart disease come knocking at the door (because we are all mortals and can't stay healthy forever), our health insurance companies get a sudden urge to send us "Denial of Coverage" letters. Why?? Based on the fact that when we were 19 years old we had the audacity to smoke 2 cigarettes in a row, WITHOUT notifying them. Or perhaps we had a couple of distant cousins with diabetes, and had the balls to not check the "previous family history" box during the insurance enrollment period. Pretty much any convenient excuse to not do what an insurance comapny is SUPPOSED to do: pay up.

And thus the avalanche of $$$thousands$$$ and $$thouusands$$ worth of medical bills begins. Our mailboxes becomes flooded with bills from doctors' assiciations you never heard of, labs who received aromatic samples of your pee and poop, hospital administrators, anaesthesiologists, and ultimately, collection agencies. And the bills start to stack up. American living rooms turn into skyscrapers of paper notices with big red lettering, and the words "PAST DUE" and "DELINQUENT". The big, wonderful free-enterprise health insurance company that you thought would take care of you or your family (Because after all, you have dutifully paid your monthly health-insurance deductions at work) suddenly disappears. And you discover, to your bewilderment, that American health-insurance whole business model is based on denying as many large claims as possible. You thought they were your saviours when they covered your family's routine check-ups and your antibiotic subscriptions. And they were certainly happy to cover those small routine bills. But as soon as big-money surgeries, hospitalizations, MRIs, and chronic illnesses rear their ugly heads, the big, kind American health insurance companies get very technical and defensive. They have entire departments dedicated to coming up with excuses for why certain procedures cannot be re-imbursed. Or for why your Aunt Betsy's hospital stay was too long by 4.7 days. Their executive bonuses are directly tied in to how many claims they were able to successfully reject.

And suddenly the money you thought you had saved by paying $30,000 less for your M3 than your friend from Belgium, gets wiped out in a matter of weeks. So while on the eastern side of the Atlantic your "evil" Government health program lets your beloved family member concentrate on getting better, and on recovering without receiving "X5M-price" medical bills in their mailbox....one serious injury or illness on the western side of the Atlantic can easily render an entire family bankrupt.

John's point is that it all evens out in the end, so no need to feel slighted about your 'M' taxes and tariffs.

[Hans_ACS]

Originally Posted by StanF18

Here's something to make you and our Croatian buddy Markost12 feel much better: Ever hear the expression "The grass is always greener on the other side?"

John's post is spot on. Americans enjoy some of the lowest tax rates and cheapest M3s in the Western world. YES!

But there is never a free ride. Our health care costs are well-documented as the #1 cause of family bankruptcy in the USA. As long as we can stay relatively healthy we will enjoy our relatively "cheap" M3s and X5Ms. But when cancer and heart disease come knocking at the door (because we are all mortals and can't stay healthy forever), our health insurance companies get a sudden urge to send us "Denial of Coverage" letters. Why?? Based on the fact that when we were 19 years old we had the audacity to smoke 2 cigarettes in a row, WITHOUT notifying them. Or perhaps we had a couple of distant cousins with diabetes, and had the balls to not check the "previous family history" box during the insurance enrollment period. Pretty much any convenient excuse to not do what an insurance comapny is SUPPOSED to do: pay up.

And thus the avalanche of $$$thousands$$$ and $$thouusands$$ worth of medical bills begins. Our mailboxes becomes flooded with bills from doctors' assiciations you never heard of, labs who received aromatic samples of your pee and poop, hospital administrators, anaesthesiologists, and ultimately, collection agencies. And the bills start to stack up. American living rooms turn into skyscrapers of paper notices with big red lettering, and the words "PAST DUE" and "DELINQUENT". The big, wonderful free-enterprise health insurance company that you thought would take care of you or your family (Because after all, you have dutifully paid your monthly health-insurance deductions at work) suddenly disappears. And you discover, to your bewilderment, that American health-insurance whole business model is based on denying as many large claims as possible. You thought they were your saviours when they covered your family's routine check-ups and your antibiotic subscriptions. And they were certainly happy to cover those small routine bills. But as soon as big-money surgeries, hospitalizations, MRIs, and chronic illnesses rear their ugly heads, the big, kind American health insurance companies get very technical and defensive. They have entire departments dedicated to coming up with excuses for why certain procedures cannot be re-imbursed. Or for why your Aunt Betsy's hospital stay was too long by 4.7 days. Their executive bonuses are directly tied in to how many claims they were able to successfully reject.

And suddenly the money you thought you had saved by paying $30,000 less for your M3 than your friend from Belgium, gets wiped out in a matter of weeks. So while on the eastern side of the Atlantic your "evil" Government health program lets your beloved family member concentrate on getting better, and on recovering without receiving "X5M-price" medical bills in their mailbox....one serious injury or illness on the western side of the Atlantic can easily render an entire family bankrupt.

John's point is that it all evens out in the end, so no need to feel slighted about your 'M' taxes and tariffs.

You are 100% correct. Every 'system' has its flaws. At our side, the health care system has a long proven record and both my parents have been VERY lucky that such a system is in place. I have seen the bills they received (and paid back for about 99%). I can tell you : that were a lot of X5's
Unfortunately, the system is often abused by people not in need of such financial support. More and more political voices become stronger in tackling this abuse. It will take some time though to work all the 'bugs' out.

The only thing that makes car owners go green here is that fact that almost every year they are being further squeezed to come up with a vast amount of euros to fill a big 'hole' in the governments budget, whilst there are other sources they should look at (my example of abuse above). This year (and more years to come), the financial crisis is the cause of their need for greed ...

All in all, I'm not complaining, I just wish it would be a bit more fair. But I guess you guys have the same feeling

[rh71]

Is it true for any make or model there compared to here - that everything is much more expensive?

I think competition among manufacturers in the various tiers (compact, luxury, etc.) in the U.S. also demands that they cost as "low" as they cost. If you don't have stiff competition, they can charge what people are willing to pay.

[jhu321]

everything is more expensive... becauseof protectionist tarrifs as well as government tax policies