How often do you service your X5?

[StephenVA]

Looks nice and clean to me....

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by trader4

So, what data, evidence, etc do the car gurus have to back up their
recommendations?

I've yet to see any engine failure that could be attributed to oil
change issues when it was done at ~5K with conventional and
~10K with synthetic. The car gurus could just have personal
opinions and like some here do it based on belief, that it makes
them feel good, etc.

I've got anecdotal evidence... seen really bad sludge on a couple of Porsche Cayenne Turbos with 10,000 mile intervals. Gunked up lots of passages and they ran pretty badly even after flushing them a couple times. The owners ended up getting rid of them after a few flushes and they ran "okay."

I know anecdotal evidence isn't great, but... I saw those engines with my eyes which went a long ways to reaffirm my 5k-7500 mile interval.

[bcredliner]

I have alway run engines that I would call highly modified, just as I do now. In the good ol' days most of us swore by a particular brand oil because we had good experiences with the engines we used them in. The preference was just as varied as it is now. I'm not talking about 5-10 years ago, I'm referencing the time before multi-weight, synthetics and high detergent oils were on the market. While I still use one brand of oil all the time I don't think of it as necessarily the king of the hill as my history is flooded with observations to the contrary.

There are so many variables, where on the planet the user is, what the engine is in, what model engine it is, the engine condition, how it is used and/or abused that I find it impossible to draw any solid conclusions from the experiences of others.

I have read many oil comparisons and haven't found any consistency of which oil is the best and none that offers associated tangible benefits. One reason is many are either done or discreetly sponsored by a particular MFG. IMO that leaves an assumed logic that changing the oil AND filter more frequently is a good thing. I am aware some say oil can get better with some miles on it. Wine does, maybe oil does. If that is true and matters,racing engines that are 1,000 plus HP would be aging the oil in another engine before using it in an engine that costs $50,000 and up.

Rebuilding an engine has always been expensive and it is not my favorite thing to do. Many posts here recommend preventative maintenance on fairly inexpensive stuff. Right or wrong, I think being sure the oil and filter are performing at their best is also inexpensive preventative maintenance.

[StephenVA]

Originally Posted by Ven

I used to do 8000 mile oc intervals earlier but now doing 10,000 miles or 18 months which ever comes first.

Ven you worry me. Here in No VA everyone's driving is Severe service (harsh too!) Stop and goes, long idle periods everyday and everywhere. I think we just made the top of the USA's worst driving areas. Another great record of achievement! Traffic? We have no stinking traffic!

[Ven]

Steve, you are probably right. But most of my driving is not in traffic hours as I work from home and my wife's work hours are also off peak traffic.

The X3 saw only 4000 miles this year. The Jeep saw 3000 in 11 months. The X5 did 2000 since I got it 2 months ago.

When I used to commute, 8000 or 9 months was my interval for the E36 M3 or E46 xi.

[TiAgX5]

Agree with BCRedliner.

An aspect of the oil topic that needs to be addressed every year or so for new members is cheap/knock-off filters.

I think most on XOut agree, Genuine BMW filters are the best bet, and avoid "Iffy Lube" shops that use bulk oil that fails to meet the specs (not to mention BMW filters not stocked, new oil & old filter).

[o3x5e53]

I can't believe jcl changes his engine oil at 20,000km and claims no sludge build up. Ridiculous. To be honest. I'm a new to owning a BMW(2003 x5 4.4i). I've owned it for about 4months now. I like to tinker and fix cars and drive older model cars instead of newer cars. Older cars just have more soul and character to drive. Anyways..before owning my first BMW I knew what I was getting into. BMW already have a bad name for not being reliable..and it goes to show why.... Service intervals. Its a joke when I see 20,000kms+ engine oil service. Its no wonder why BMW leak so much. In this 4month of owning my x5 there has been afew suprises during fixes. I'm so surprised that certain gaskets can even get so brittle or can even happen! Or gaskets literally disappearing/deteriorated. Coming from a Honda car enthusiast, racing them and modifying them.. I'll guarantee you now..my 2000 integra type R(210,000km)/ and 1994 civic with a 2002 model engine dropped in, is internally cleaner and healthier than most of these BMW here period. I have changed heaps of gaskets and worked on alot of cars(non European)..but these BMW are on another level of "how can this even happen".

Oil changes is important. These bmw's wouldnt leak or have so much dam trouble if oil service was done on a regular basis and not by following the dam service light.

Put it this way, engine oil is there not just to lubricate but to also keep engine temperature down(which everyone knows). But keeping good oil in the motor does wonders especially on gaskets and seals keeping them 'rubbery' and well conditioned as they should. Keeping temperature down meaning less expansions on seals and motor.
JCL you may think your motor is healthy.. But internally you don't know what's happening..especially when engine oil is suppose to keep our famous x5 timing chain guides lubed and keeping em from getting so brittle. If anyone's interested I'll even post one of my Honda type R motors that currently sitting on 210,000kms opened.. Which looks almost brand new and HARDLY leaks and see more track racing time too. Despite the BMW having afew troubles.. I still love the thing. Next on the list is valley pan gaskets and manifold gaskets while I'm at it.

BTW whoever says spending 80-110$ every 3month - 5months is a waste of money... Well I rather spend that 110 every 3months then spend 1000$ money fixing.

[bcredliner]

The oil temperature is regulated by the cooling system. Doesn't matter if oil is new or old it will level out at the same temp.

FYI- Bear in mind, that over a 20,000 mile oil change interval there will be oil added that will improve the effectiveness of the oil and we don't know the conditions surrounding the oil change interval.

Most of the time there is no way to know if an oil change interval caused an engine problem but it is a fact that the more miles on the oil the less effective it becomes, thus the more miles between changes the more risk. Small risk or big risk, I don't consider the extent of the risk.

If I use $100 as the cost of an oil and filter change, and I drive 10,000 miles a year and I change the oil every 5000 miles I spend $200 a year. If I have a seemingly oil related engine problem and it only costs $1,000. it would take 5+ years of oil and filter changes before I would have a negative payback.

I would expect a negative payback if I started from 0 miles on the clock. But, most of us now have 75,000++ miles on our vehicles. The moving parts in the engine are metal to metal, with oil being the only reason they don't eat each other.

We certainly should agree that oil degrades as miles accumulate on the engine. Think of it this way. How many ounces of typical oil contaminates would you pour into your engine, regardless of the oil filter you use, and put another 10,000 miles on that oil?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by o3x5e53

I can't believe jcl changes his engine oil at 20,000km and claims no sludge build up. Ridiculous.....

You can claim it is ridiculous if you like. I base my personal assessment on having grown up in a family owned independent automotive shop back in the 70's, having earned a mechanical engineering degree, and then spending a few decades in a (non BMW) dealership heavy equipment business, with responsibility for managing long term maintenance contacts, scheduled oil sampling labs, national warranty programs, shop and field service delivery, and so on.

With respect to BMWs, the current one is our 6th, not counting a motorcycle. I track oil consumption, and all repairs, and have records for every vehicle back to 1976. I manage service costs for the lowest total lifetime cost of ownership. I do my own work when I can, use a family owned shop when it is handy to have a hoist, and use the dealer for most routine servicing because it is convenient.

You reference sludge, but don't qualify if you mean oil sludge, ie dark brown, with byproducts of combustion, or condensate paste (not really sludge, occurs due to not getting the oil warm enough to burn off the moisture, and often mistakenly called sludge here and elsewhere).

I don't agree that BMWs have a bad reputation for reliability. They have a reputation for not being particularly tolerant of neglect and abuse, whether in operation or maintenance. Vehicles with low reliability often experienced that neglect. Buying older vehicles with unknown operation and service history, that may be all that some have experienced.

I agree that regular servicing is important. Being conservative, I do my services before they are due. When I change the oil at 20,000 km on a vehicle designed for a 28,000 km OCI that is early, not extended. Running it to 40,000 would be extended. Posters regularly refer to following the manufacturer's recommendations as extended, when they would have to go back to the nineties to find a maintenance schedule for shorter intervals. 10,000 mile intervals came out in 1992, and 15,000 miles intervals cameout in 1999. That is a lot of years of experience. Neither vehicles, nor oils, are the same as in past decades, when we routinely changed oil at 3000 miles.

With respect, I think I do know what the condition of my vehicle is.

Jeff

[JCL]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

FYI- Bear in mind, that over a 20,000 mile oil change interval there will be oil added that will improve the effectiveness of the oil and we don't know the conditions surrounding the oil change interval.

I don't think many are running 20,000 miles. I typically run 20,000 km. But in that 20,000 km, I don't add any oil. I could just about get a litre in it by the end, but I change it instead.

Originally Posted by bcredliner

We certainly should agree that oil degrades as miles accumulate on the engine. Think of it this way. How many ounces of typical oil contaminates would you pour into your engine, regardless of the oil filter you use, and put another 10,000 miles on that oil?

I think we had this discussion previously

The additives in the oil degrade, in terms of stabilizers, TBN, etc. Agree. That matters once they are used up, or reach a critical level. Until then, not so much.

However, the oil does a better job of lubricating once broken in, with lubricity improving up to something like 12,000 miles IIRC, in the study I posted previously.

Another way of phrasing the ability of the oil to hold those contaminants in suspension, is to consider the impact of sump capacity. Many with 3000 mile OCI habits are used to 4-5 quart sumps. Double the sump size, double the capacity for managing those contaminants, before requiring a drain and fill.

Jeff